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    You can't refuse to be scanned by ICE's facial recognition app, DHS document say

    (www.404media.co)
    574 points nh43215rgb | 11 comments | 01 Nov 25 08:58 UTC | HN request time: 0.257s | source | bottom
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    hexbin010 ◴[01 Nov 25 13:30 UTC] No.45781498[source]▶
    > “ICE officials have told us that an apparent biometric match by Mobile Fortify is a ‘definitive’ determination of a person’s status and that an ICE officer may ignore evidence of American citizenship—including a birth certificate—if the app says the person is an alien,”

    This is "computer says no (not a citizen)". Which is horrifying

    They've just created an app to justify what they were already doing right? And the argument will be "well it's a super complex app run by a very clever company so it can't be wrong"?

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    GarnetFloride ◴[01 Nov 25 15:10 UTC] No.45782252[source]▶
    Just like IBM said, a computer can't be held responsible for its decisions. Management's been doing this for a long time to justify layoffs and such. This is just the next step.
    replies(2): >>45782990 #>>45784895 #
    1. roywiggins ◴[01 Nov 25 16:31 UTC] No.45782990[source]▶
    IBM wasn't held responsible either:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

    replies(1): >>45783140 #
    2. EA-3167 ◴[01 Nov 25 16:46 UTC] No.45783140[source]▶
    A lot of people and companies ultimately got away with that, because of either necessity or the manufactured perception of necessity. It's an important lesson about selective enforcement, and just how extreme the cases it can be applied to. From traffic laws to genocide, it's all negotiable for the powerful if there are benefits at stake.
    replies(1): >>45783588 #
    3. lostlogin ◴[01 Nov 25 17:39 UTC] No.45783588[source]▶
    I went to the Siemens museum in Erlangen. Their history of work on medical imaging is on display and it’s good.

    The awkward ‘Siemens and the holocaust’ section was so pathetic.

    replies(2): >>45784735 #>>45784888 #
    4. lb1lf ◴[01 Nov 25 19:50 UTC] No.45784735{3}[source]▶
    If this kind of thing interests you, you could do a lot worse than picking up Edwin Black's 'IBM and the Holocaust'.

    Turns out IBM had a rather... Uh, pragmatic attitude towards the uses the nazi regime found for IBM equipment.

    5. EA-3167 ◴[01 Nov 25 20:06 UTC] No.45784888{3}[source]▶
    In a bleak sense I suppose I can understand, it's not as though they can have a big, "By the way, we greedily assisted the Nazis with the worst act of industrialized murder in modern history, profited from it, were never held to meaningful account, and we're still successful," room.

    And examples such as "de-Baathification" in Iraq show that even the best-intentioned actions can have wide-reaching and truly devastating unintended consequences. I won't pretend that I have some neat and clean answer to any of this, but there's a persistent sense of moral outrage that feels earned around all of this.

    replies(3): >>45785412 #>>45788388 #>>45789090 #
    6. jacobolus ◴[01 Nov 25 21:12 UTC] No.45785412{4}[source]▶
    They could have an exhibit like that, perhaps describing how they were trying to make amends, donating money to projects promoting pluralism and diversity, opposing authoritarianism around the world, helping the descendants of those they harmed, etc.

    But they're not going to, because the people in charge don't sincerely care about the topic.

    As for Iraq: I don't see much evidence that US actions there were "best-intentioned", or even well-intentioned.

    replies(1): >>45787900 #
    7. lostlogin ◴[02 Nov 25 04:47 UTC] No.45787900{5}[source]▶
    What even were the intentions? September 11 wasn’t related, the WMDs lie was known to be false. Was it just Bush trying to impress daddy?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-64980565

    replies(2): >>45788411 #>>45791178 #
    8. queenkjuul ◴[02 Nov 25 07:05 UTC] No.45788388{4}[source]▶
    I would contend that there's a middle ground between "de-baathification" and "putting former Nazi officials in places of immense political, economic, and military positions"

    I'm always surprised more people don't know how many Nazis were in NATO offices and the West German federal police

    9. queenkjuul ◴[02 Nov 25 07:09 UTC] No.45788411{6}[source]▶
    Imperial hubris. Surely the US can simply decide to own the oil and poppy fields with no consequences, right?

    It's not like people aren't still frothing at the mouth to repeat the same mistake in Venezuela or Palestine or Yemen. Maintaining empire requires shows of force. There's always profit to be made along the way. It motivates itself

    10. actionfromafar ◴[02 Nov 25 09:48 UTC] No.45789090{4}[source]▶
    ” Bremer issued Order Number 2, in effect dissolving the entire former Iraqi army[45] and putting 400,000 former Iraqi soldiers out of work.[46] The move was widely criticized for creating a large pool of armed and disgruntled youths for the insurgency.”

    Paul Bremer made something very, very stupid.

    11. ◴[02 Nov 25 15:49 UTC] No.45791178{6}[source]▶