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Async/Await is finally back in Zig

(charlesfonseca.substack.com)
39 points barddoo | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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ajross ◴[] No.45782414[source]
Is it time now to say that async was a mistake, a-la C++ exceptions? The recent futurelock discussion[1] more or less solidified for me that this is all just a mess. Not just that one bug, but the coloring issue mentioned in the blog post (basically async "infects" project code requiring that you end up porting or duplicating almost everything -- this is especially true in Python). The general cognitive load of debugging inside out code is likewise really high, even if the top-level expression of the loop generator or whatever is clean.

And it's all for, what? A little memory for thread stacks (most of which ends up being a wash because of all the async contexts being tossed around anyway -- those are still stacks and still big!)? Some top-end performance for people chasing C10k numbers in a world that has scaled into datacenters for a decade anyway?

Not worth it. IMHO it's time to put this to bed.

[1] No one in that thread or post has a good summary, but it's "Rust futures consume wakeup events from fair locks that only emit one event, so can deadlock if they aren't currently being selected and will end up waiting for some other event before doing so."

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jayd16 ◴[] No.45782502[source]
I really wish people would get over the coloring meme.

Knowing if a function will yield the thread is actually extremely relevant knowledge you want available.

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bmacho ◴[] No.45782580[source]
Funny you mention this.

Zig's colorless async was purely solving the unergonomic calling convention, at the cost of knowing if a function is async or not (compiler decides, does not give any hints and if you get it wrong then that's UB).

Arguably the main problem with async is that it is unergonomic. You always have to act like there were 2 types of functions, while, in practice, these 2 types are almost always self-evident and you can treat sync and async functions the same.

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1. jayd16 ◴[] No.45782721[source]
I don't really know Zig. How does it handle the common GUI thread pattern where you get lock free concurrency by funneling the async GUI code through the GUI thread?

When you know what functions and blocks are synchronous, you know the thread will not be yielded. If you direct async tasks to run on a single thread, you know they will never run concurrently. These together mean you can use that pattern to get lock free critical sections. You don't need to write thread-safe data structures.

If a function can yield implicitly, how do you have the control you need to pull this off?

It's a really common pattern in GUI dev so how does Zig handle that?