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You can't refuse to be scanned by ICE's facial recognition app, DHS document say

(www.404media.co)
574 points nh43215rgb | 9 comments | 01 Nov 25 08:58 UTC | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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noodlesUK ◴[01 Nov 25 12:39 UTC] No.45781183[source]▶
This is going to be a huge pain. The US has a very fragmented identity system, and "move fast and break things" approaches like this to bring information from across government systems well outside the scope of what that information was collected for will result in real problems.

I worry what this app and systems like it might mean for me. I'm a US citizen, but I used to be an LPR. I never naturalized - I got my citizenship automatically by operation of law (INA 320, the child citizenship act). At some point I stopped being noodlesUK (LPR) and magically became noodlesUK (US Citizen), but not through the normal process. Presumably this means that there are entries in USCIS's systems that are orphaned, that likely indicate that I am an LPR who has abandoned their status, or at least been very bad about renewing their green card.

I fear that people in similar situations to my own might have a camera put in their face, some old database record that has no chance of being updated will be returned, and the obvious evidence in front of an officer's eyes, such as a US passport will be ignored. There are probably millions of people in similar situations to me, and millions more with even more complex statuses.

I know people who have multiple citizenships with multiple names, similar to this person: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45531721. Will these hastily deployed systems be able to cope with the complex realities of real people?

EDIT: LPR is lawful permanent resident, i.e., green card holder

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MSFT_Edging ◴[01 Nov 25 14:23 UTC] No.45781864[source]▶
Someone I know is in a similar situation. She doesn't have the "naturalization documents". She has a passport, a ssn, and became a citizen before she turned 18.

Will ICE get it right? or will she be put into a prison for months with poor conditions, with an administration that does not want lawyers involved, with little ability to be found or call out for help?

This site likes to do the cowardly take of avoiding politics as long as it's advantageous. I'm going to look into these companies that produce this tech, and memorize the company names. If a resume ever passes my desk with a significant time at any of these companies, it's going to be a "no" from me. That's the small bit of power I hold.

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1. Muromec ◴[01 Nov 25 14:59 UTC] No.45782151[source]▶
>Will ICE get it right?

Hands on the ground don't read the laws, they only bring people before the person who actually knows them.

So no, ICE goons will do the basic thing -- check how white the person is, if not white enough, ask for documents, if documents are not convincing enough to them, snatch the person and let the more nuanced decisions to be made by those who can read.

Now if the person above them isn't agreeing with interpretation of the law that was used to issue those documents, it's sitting in the jail waiting for a judge time.

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2. danaris ◴[01 Nov 25 15:18 UTC] No.45782325[source]▶
Except that to all appearances, most of the time ICE isn't actually bringing them before people who actually know the law: they're throwing them in concentration camps.

Or even when they do end up before someone who knows the law, and that someone says "no, this is illegal, you have to set them free," they say "nah, we can do what we want" and put them on a plane to another country unrelated to the hapless detainee.

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3. fabian2k ◴[01 Nov 25 16:43 UTC] No.45783121{3}[source]▶
They put a whole lot of children onto a plane in the middle of the night to deport them. This was only stopped because laywers got wind of it and a federal judge intervened almost immediately on the weekend.

They are trying to bypass any review by being fast and creating facts that prevent US judges from any effective action as once people are outside US jurisdiction they have very little power.

And immigration judges are not actual judges, they are part of the executive.

4. boston_clone ◴[01 Nov 25 17:04 UTC] No.45783301{3}[source]▶
bit of a motte and bailey, there.

you’re responding to a comment which states detainees are being sent to concentration camps, places like the deplorably named Alligator Alcatraz. i don’t think we should conflate that as deportation.

5. adrr ◴[01 Nov 25 18:20 UTC] No.45783973[source]▶
Administration view is that if you're not citizen, you don't get due process[1]. Even if you're a citizen, if their system says your not, you'll never get brought in front of people who know the law. Why due process only works if everyone gets it otherwise the government will say your a class that doesn't get it even if you aren't.

1)https://www.wral.com/story/fact-check-trump-says-immigrants-...

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6. refurb ◴[02 Nov 25 04:33 UTC] No.45787862[source]▶
This isn’t new under Trump. But it’s entertaining watching everyone pretend it is.

Obama had similar rules around standing deportation orders and how quickly they could be executed once an alien was in custody.

If you’ve stood before a judge, argued why you should be allowed to stay and lost, you have a standing deportation order. That’s due process. Nothing has been denied.

It makes for a great talking point but is a pretty shallow analysis of what is going on or their historical relevance.

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7. MSFT_Edging ◴[02 Nov 25 16:28 UTC] No.45791444{3}[source]▶
While Obama, Biden, and Trump all had cruel deportation policies, the previous two didn't have 5-figure bonuses for a deportation.

Additionally, the performative method of how they're looking for deportations, its random, violent, and meant to send a message of powerlessness and fear.

The point is fear and cruelty. As was Family separation under Biden, the cruelty is accelerating.

8. adrr ◴[02 Nov 25 17:32 UTC] No.45791946{3}[source]▶
Trump is deporting US citizen with no due process. Lets not pretend this happened under Obama or Biden.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/28/man-deported-to-lao...

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9. refurb ◴[03 Nov 25 00:37 UTC] No.45794749{4}[source]▶
You realize ICE responded to this claim?

https://x.com/dhsgov/status/1983550041496117532?s=46

“This temporary restraining order was not served to ICE until AFTER the criminal illegal alien was removed….Following his heinous crimes, he lost his green card, and an immigration judge ordered him removed in 2006. 20 years later, he tried a Hail Mary attempt to remain in our country by claiming he was a U.S. citizen.”