Some people can't see mental images

> He knew, of course, that people talked about “picturing” or “visualizing,” but he had always taken this to be just a metaphorical way of saying “thinking.” Now it appeared that, in some incomprehensible sense, people meant these words literally.

This is the quintessential aphantasic experience. I still struggle to believe that other people "see" things in their heads.

Do you see them in dreams? I normally struggle to visualize things but when I'm half asleep my imagination suddenly has color and detail that normally doesn't happen when I try to picture stuff

I can't speak about my immediate experience of dreams because I'm not dreaming right now, but when I remember my dreams I remember them the same way I remember anything else, which is to say, without mentally reproducing any visual component of the memory.

This is the fundamental question about experience.

You may be "right". What you consider to be "seeing" things in one's head may be not what's happening in that person's mind. What they call "seeing" may be something else.

The best way I can describe it is essentially generating a memory. If I were instructed to picture an apple in my mind, I could imagine a hand holding up an bog standard Red Delicious. I can imagine it free-floating. And it would be much like when I remember what happened yesterday for instance. Of course, we get into whether or not we "see" the memory or not.

So, if you are saying you do not consider yourself to have mental images, what, to your best ability to describe it, do you do when you remember an event?

So, if you watch a poor person begging for food on the street, how do you process that in the future? Do you rely on the remembered feeling and literal observation in words? How do you not remember what you saw?

Personally, I remember "facts" about the event. Like, who was there, when it was, what was said. I don't have mental images of an event.

I don't find it so surprising, because I can recollect sounds, voices, songs. The same thing, another sense.

So it's probably like hearing "inner" sounds, just with motion pictures.

I wonder if there are also sound aphantasts, but it's highly likely.

Different to the case described at the beginning of the article I have lots of memories. But they are stories of what happened, not movies.

At first I had some suspicion that perhaps the findings were partly a result of interpretation of the question. After all, I don't generate a crystal clear image of what I'm thinking about - the image has some amorphous qualities and comes in and out of focus.

But dreams are ultra-visual experiences for me, to the extent where I will occasionally have flashbacks or deja vu to dream images that were exceptionally strong.

So that nullified my suspicion! That said, I do wonder if it's a spectrum, in that some people are more or less visual in their thinking, and on the extremes people may get the capability snipped, as the dim visual hum fades to black and background noise.

I still struggle to believe that some can't. There's just always been an abstract 'canvas' separate from the one signals from my eyes end up on and I can 'draw' on it by thinking about visual stimulus, and it's hazy but perceptibly there, the same way I 'hear' a song when I think about it. When this subject comes up I also always want to ask if people with aphantasia can hear sounds or music in their head. Or a taste or smell, etc..

Not the OP - I think it's the same process. The difference is in what my inner narrator is doing. When I asleep it is almost always gone, and this is when I typically see things in full color. When awake, my attention is split between listening to its storytelling and the mental imagery, which I believe makes the latter more dull. I noticed that the narrator is more loud when I'm in a minor mental state, like tired or annoyed. When happy/refreshed - there is no voice in my head and I can "see" things very clearly, especially their colors. So, I started looking for ways to divert my attention from the narrator. The most effective seems to keep the narrator busy with commenting on my breath ("in" and "out"), got some boost of mental clarity from that.

I have no idea if I have aphantasia or not but the comparison between sound is interesting

I can very clearly imagine sound or music in my head. My visual imagination is at like 20% of that and it's a struggle

> I wonder if there are also sound aphantasts, but it's highly likely.

My friend is one such person. He is amazed I can "hear" the opening soundtrack of Star Wars. I'm amazed there are people who cannot.

It's probably a related phenomenon to visual aphantasia. My friend, poor thing, has it all.

So it's like an analytical description of the event?

You don't remember sensations about an experience, like touch, smells, etc?

I "know" that I saw someone begging on the street. I might remember other "facts" as they seemed appropriate. But that's it. If you asked me what color their hair was or what they were wearing I would have no idea unless I had chosen to make a note of that fact.

I rely on the feeling, the sounds, the words on the sign, or by analogy to another thing. I don't remember what it looked like in the way that in a dream I believe I physically see things

Basically? It's a "sense" or "vibe". "There was a guy begging on the street" is what I remember. Not the actual words or a picture, just the "vibe" of that sentence. Definitely no touches, sounds, smells, or pictures.

My wife, who has a very visual and auditory memory, to the point that she can basically re-watch movies in her head, is still dumbfounded by this fact.

My visual imagery is also "hazy" and somehow fleeting and unreal, but still very useful. I don't find it that hard to imagine (heh) that for some people it would be more vivid, and for others almost nonexistent – though a total lack of visualization ability is perhaps more difficult to picture (heh^2), similarly to how it's almost impossible to imagine what it is like to be born blind, for example.

It would definitely be interesting if there were more discussion on other imagined sensory modalities, too. For example, as a choir singer I'd guess that, say, keeping a given starting pitch in your head is easier for people who can mentally "hear" it. Myself I can sort of imagine sounds, but keeping a pitch in my head is more about the physically preparing my larynx to produce that pitch.

The hypnogogic state seems to work fine in at least some aphants, including myself. I see nothing at all when I try to visualize. I have also lucid dreamed in the past and have consciously seen things in a dream as well. I can remember the dream as having been visual in the same way I can remember seeing things with my eyes open yesterday.

I have aphantasia and cannot hear sounds or music in my head. I can't taste or smell things either, but I've also been going through life assuming most people can't either. From reading about it, it seems that some people can do hear things but not see them and probably various other combinations.

I have no abstract canvas to write anything on that I've ever seen.

would your friend be able to hum the star wars theme song from memory? it seems impossible for me to be able to recreate the star wars theme song without being able to hear it in my head.

It’s probably related but not directly connected. My mind’s eye is almost totally blind but I can have John Williams conducting a full orchestra in my head if I want.

(I can’t ‘hear’ lyrics though and have great difficulty remembering them)

How will you remember this comment in 2 hours? Will you visually see the words? You don't need to visually see something that happened to remember it happened or the idea of it. I don't need to visualize Harry Potter in my head to remember the fact he has a lightning bolt shaped scar on his forehead. I just remember the fact.

Adding a data point. I don’t think this is aphantasia, but rather SDAM (severely deficient autobiographical memory). For the future, the memory has to be recorded as facts as the original experience is gone. This means the emotions and other aspects cannot be experienced again. Recording things like, I saw this, I felt like this, I intend to do this.

Not all people who can’t visualise have this SDAM thing (though it is a common overlap), but SDAM means I would remember an event like this less than a problem at work (as an example), without intentional effort to transcribe it.

This sounds a bit cold, but it’s not as cold as it looks. If I read your description of the poor person begging for food, I am emotionally moved. In a similar way, if I examine my memory of the poor person begging for food, I am emotionally moved. I might not be reliving the experience, but the narrative I’ve preserved is enough.

This is why I like listening to my wife describe things we’ve done together. I often don’t remember it, but the narrative is still emotionally impacting. She’s my external memory for things that have happened in our lives.