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Disable AI in Firefox

(flamedfury.com)
197 points speckx | 23 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
1. porphyra ◴[] No.45696986[source]
Mozilla could have had the no-nonsense, high performance browser backend that everyone uses to build their own browsers (like the recent glut of AI browsers), instead of everyone using Chromium/Blink. In the past, Gecko was really the go-to choice for this. They almost had a second shot with Servo. But they kinda really dropped the ball on the technical capability of the browser while continuing to be distracted by all sorts of random gimmicks like Pocket and then this. Sad!
replies(6): >>45697043 #>>45697055 #>>45697124 #>>45697237 #>>45697283 #>>45697334 #
2. bitpush ◴[] No.45697043[source]
> Mozilla could have had the no-nonsense, high performance browser backend that everyone uses to build their own browsers

I agree with the sentiment, but you underestimate the level of engineering, coordination, design work, testing it is to do this.

It is admirable that they even have a half-decent browser, but to compete at the top you need soooo much money and motivation.

replies(2): >>45697216 #>>45697317 #
3. ZenoArrow ◴[] No.45697055[source]
Time to switch to Waterfox, it's basically Firefox with the privacy features that Firefox should have by default:

https://www.waterfox.net/

replies(2): >>45697128 #>>45697313 #
4. SoKamil ◴[] No.45697124[source]
The amount of money and research put into Chromium is nuts and it's borderline impossible to compete.
5. latexr ◴[] No.45697128[source]
That doesn’t address the larger complaint your parent commenter is making that Mozilla dropped the ball on Firefox development.
replies(1): >>45699292 #
6. doublerabbit ◴[] No.45697216[source]
> It is admirable that they even have a half-decent browser, but to compete at the top you need soooo much money and motivation.

Let's not forget the CEO who paid herself a $6.9m salary in 2022, $5.6m in 2023.

7. blackhaz ◴[] No.45697237[source]
We had Netscape Navigator which began bloating after version 3 eventually becoming Netscape Communicator with various sorts of useless bullshit. When it became so fat it couldn't even start without causing machines to swap, I remember Phoenix came out - a lightweight, fast Mozilla browser. It was a godsend, an immediate hit. I remember all my friends switching to it when it was, like version 0.x, because it was so much faster. A proper no-bullshit WWW experience. Then Phoenix became Firefird, then Firefox. Now Firefox is the new Netscape. Cycle continues.
8. wvenable ◴[] No.45697283[source]
Mozilla is a C-suite vanity organization disguised as software company. I love Firefox (I'm using it write this comment) and I really appreciate the developers who continue to work and improve it -- I just wish they were given far more resources to do it.
replies(1): >>45697491 #
9. ◴[] No.45697313[source]
10. rudedogg ◴[] No.45697317[source]
> It is admirable that they even have a half-decent browser, but to compete at the top you need soooo much money and motivation.

I’m guessing Ladybird will prove you wrong in due time

replies(3): >>45697599 #>>45698098 #>>45699941 #
11. dontlaugh ◴[] No.45697334[source]
Gecko was always hard to embed, which is why WebKit was developed by Apple and then widespread in open source projects.
replies(1): >>45697440 #
12. mionhe ◴[] No.45697440[source]
More accurately, why WebKit was forked from khtml by Apple.
replies(1): >>45697452 #
13. dontlaugh ◴[] No.45697452{3}[source]
Sure. KHTML wasn’t embeddable outside KDE either until Apple made that happen.
replies(1): >>45697624 #
14. slig ◴[] No.45697491[source]
I doubt the Mozilla C-suite even uses FF on their macbooks/iPhones.
15. Barrin92 ◴[] No.45697599{3}[source]
Modern web browsers are in the range of 30 million LOC, probably 50% of that is just pure implementation of web platform standards and engine work.

Do you just need to advertise stuff among content creators these days with common sense going out of the window? It'll take them a decade to catch up without any engineering funding at the level that Apple/Google/Mozilla have.

replies(1): >>45698033 #
16. ASalazarMX ◴[] No.45697624{4}[source]
That was always KHTML's goal, but Apple saw value in it for their business plan, just like it saw value in FreeBSD to reuse as their OS's base.
replies(1): >>45700277 #
17. rudedogg ◴[] No.45698033{4}[source]
> Do you just need to advertise stuff among content creators these days with common sense going out of the window?

I’m not a content creator and I don’t really care about Ladybird. I use Safari.

I’m just pointing out that browsers have decades of legacy cruft from mis-steps deciding what the web even should be and someone smart can carve out a path to covering 90% of use cases in 10% of the effort and code. And there are the huge organizational costs Google and others pay that a small organization doesn’t have to.

Your argument is the same as looking at a large company (say Microsoft) and saying no one can compete without trillions of dollars and tens of thousands of engineers. Ladybird has the benefit of hindsight, as well as a non-idiotic structure (I assume).

The defeatism among engineers is sad

replies(1): >>45698241 #
18. wobfan ◴[] No.45698098{3}[source]
Ladybird will be a Firefox alternative, nothing more. It can't be, by definition. People are not using Chrome, Edge or Safari because they're great browsers. They use it because it's preinstalled and good enough. They don't care, and they won't care in a future where Ladybird is a thing.

Ask 60% of their (Chrome, Edge, Safari) userbase, and they won't even be able to tell you what their browser is called.

replies(1): >>45702926 #
19. Barrin92 ◴[] No.45698241{5}[source]
It's not defeatism at all. I think it's just important to acknowledge that a browser, or software at the scale of Microsoft is real work, these are objectively gigantic engineering efforts and not all of the people at those firms are stupid.

If you're really smart and you say "I can do it with half or a quarter of the resources with hindsight", sure I might give you the benefit of the doubt, but if you're going to claim you can do it with 0.1% of the resources in a volunteer Discord server effort, no. Not because I wouldn't be happy if that was possible, but because that's not how the world works. Linux is being able to compete with Microsoft because there are now large billion dollar companies like RedHat, Steam and others investing into the development. It takes real money and developer time.

And that's the second point, Mozilla has to make these compromises because they are one of the few companies that actually maintains an independent software project at this scale. And if any other competitor ever wants to get there, they'll need to answer these funding questions too. Even if they're ten times as clever, they'll still need tens or hundreds of millions.

20. ZenoArrow ◴[] No.45699292{3}[source]
It partially addresses it, because it shows there's a way to save the software Mozilla develops from itself. In other words, I couldn't give a damn if Mozilla keeps misunderstanding it's market if there are open source forks of its software that undoes Mozilla's bad decisions and keeps the parts worth keeping. I'm not sentimental about Mozilla, Mozilla can continue to become irrelevant as long as competition in the browser space continues. New funding models can be developed to support forks of Firefox.
21. bitpush ◴[] No.45699941{3}[source]
> I’m guessing Ladybird will prove you wrong in due time

It'll be a usable product, but it will be extremely extremely niche, until the dev burns out or just quit it.

I hope I'm wrong, but a browser is a XXL type project and needs proper funding (means = there should be a reason for it to exist, not altruistic as lets have an alternate because reasons ..)

22. dontlaugh ◴[] No.45700277{5}[source]
Sure. I wasn’t trying to say that Apple made WebKit from scratch, merely that they developed it into something easily embeddable. That very much was novel at the time.
23. tim333 ◴[] No.45702926{4}[source]
I've never had Chrome preinstalled. I use it because it seems to me a great browser despite some annoyances. I think that goes for most Windows users.