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270 points imasl42 | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.249s | source
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spicymaki ◴[] No.45667521[source]
I feel that for long time people coming into the industry did not really care about code as a craft, but more of code as easy money.

This was first salient to me when I saw posts about opensource developers who make critical infrastructure living hand to mouth. Then the day in the life of a software engineer working in a coffee shop. Then the bootcamps or just learn to code movement. Then the leetcode grinders. Then developers living in cars in SF due to lack of affordable housing. Now it is about developers vibe coding themselves out of a job.

The issue is and will always be that developers are not true professionals. The standards are loosely enforced and we do a poor job of controlling who comes in and out of the industry. There are no ethics codes, skillsets are arbitrary, and we don't have any representation. Worst yet we bought into this egocentric mindset where abuses to workers and customers are overlooked.

This makes no sense to me. Lawyers have bar associations, doctors have medical associations, coders have existential angst.

Now the bosses are like automate your way out of a job or you will lose your job.

I always ask myself, in what other "profession" would its members be so hostile to their own interests?

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yuye ◴[] No.45667913[source]
Because there's a difference between a "coder" and a software engineer.

Someone who finished a bootcamp might be able to write a simple program in Python, but that doesn't make them a software engineer.

I've said this out loud before and have gotten told I'm an elitist, that my degree doesn't make me better at software than those without one. That majoring in computer science teaches you only esoteric knowledge that can't be applied in a "real job".

On the other hand, the industry being less strict about degrees can be considered a positive. There definitely do exist extremely talented self-taught software engineers that have made a great career for themselves.

But I definitely agree with the need of some sort of standard. I don't care if some bootcamper gets a job at the latest "AI on the blockchain as a service" unicorn startup, good for them. I'd rather have people with formal degrees work on something like a Therac-25, though.

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1. int_19h ◴[] No.45687440[source]
You don't need a degree to learn CS theory, though. Many of us who are self-taught, have learned about that as well (yes, there are people reading SCIP as a hobby).

And conversely, a CS degree doesn't necessarily mean that the person has actually learned what they were taught.