Most active commenters
  • excalibur(3)
  • propagandist(3)
  • hypeatei(3)
  • cheema33(3)

←back to thread

763 points tartoran | 37 comments | | HN request time: 1.126s | source | bottom
1. excalibur ◴[] No.45682242[source]
Because the US government is no longer even pretending to care about human rights.
replies(4): >>45682269 #>>45682332 #>>45682540 #>>45682601 #
2. propagandist ◴[] No.45682269[source]
And it was always purely a pretense.

One must laud the transparency this administration has introduced.

replies(2): >>45682334 #>>45682694 #
3. mikeyouse ◴[] No.45682334[source]
One really mustn't. There are plenty of people who work in government that actually care about human rights - this 'tear it down' mentality relies on the fantasy that it will be rebuilt in some better form. And this kind of 'both sides' bullshit from the article highlights it perfectly:

> Blaha had already voiced frustration that despite the HRG passing its pilot phase, the Biden administration had not done enough to publicise it, meaning the provision to "facilitate receipt" of information was still not being fully honoured before the Trump administration deleted the channel entirely.

One side didn't publicize it as much as we would have preferred, and the other one deleted it entirely. Both sides are bad!

replies(3): >>45682471 #>>45682476 #>>45683144 #
4. excalibur ◴[] No.45682433[source]
> When did the US government ever care about human rights?

July 4 1776

replies(2): >>45682514 #>>45682657 #
5. AndrewKemendo ◴[] No.45682435[source]
Which is why all of this recent mess is interesting because the only thing that’s different in terms of action now is that they are doing all the dirt in public rather in private

Even total deportation numbers are lower (given administration length) than every previous administration as reported by Jacobin in the latest issue - yall remember Elian Gonzalez?

6. runarberg ◴[] No.45682471{3}[source]
The ‘tear it down’ mentality is about tearing down the covers and exposing America for what it is. That is how I understood your parent at least.

The USA has been doing human rights abuses for a long time, without any repercussions. The Iraq war and the Patriot Act is but a few of many many many more examples. For a while now the entire political spectrum in Europe has given this impunity to the USA, with the covers gone, maybe it will be harder—at least for the left of center parties—to give this impunity to the USA.

7. dfee ◴[] No.45682476{3}[source]
> There are plenty of people who work in government that actually care about human rights

Hopefully most do! All should.

However, most employees don’t pick what they work on. So it’s always at the discretion of the boss to determine what’s practically considered, regardless of ideals or desires.

8. hirvi74 ◴[] No.45682514{3}[source]
Educate me.

How cruel was the treatment from the British truly? My understanding was things like "no taxation without representation" was unrealistic due to the sheer distance and amount of time required to travel between the US and the UK. We're talking somewhere around 2-4 months one way. To send a rep back and forth with a message like:

US sends rep -> Uk and rep interact -> rep goes back to US with UK decision -> the US give their answer and the rep goes back to UK -> then rep goes back to the US with the UK's decision.

Such an interaction could take well over a year.

I also thought the US was the lowest taxed colony under British control? Not to mention it's not like the British didn't provide military protection to the colonies as well.

I am not saying the revolution was purely unjustified, but I am not really aware of how bad things truly were. My history classes kind of glossed over that part.

replies(4): >>45682616 #>>45682792 #>>45682920 #>>45684558 #
9. georgemcbay ◴[] No.45682517[source]
> Slaves were freed and the civil rights act wasn't passed for almost 100 years after the war.

That's progress though, even if its progress on something that never should have existed to begin with, and the progress is far too slow.

And yes, our progress has been far too slow and way too uneven, but for the first 40 years of my life I felt like we were still progressing (yes -- too slow, and too unevenly).

But in the most recent ~decade of my life I feel like we've switched from too-slow progress to regression.

Shitty progress isn't enough, but its better than no progress (or, much worse, regression).

replies(1): >>45683037 #
10. hydrogen7800 ◴[] No.45682540[source]
Perception is reality. If there is at least a pretense of caring about human rights, then there is some modicum of shame upon leadership in not living up to them. And even if the desire was fake, creating a website to "tell us when we are being evil" is real. Pulling off the mask and showing the "true self", which is what the Trump administration is doing (and far more than that, I should add. It is only showing the "true self" of a subset of the population), is removing not only the potential for shame, but also accountability. I don't have to believe that America is/was a flawless champion of human rights to believe that it is much, much worse now.
11. gorbachev ◴[] No.45682601[source]
The US Government has never cared about human rights. It's always been used as a weapon to flog enemies. Allies like Israel can do whatever they like.
replies(3): >>45682972 #>>45683253 #>>45683341 #
12. pear01 ◴[] No.45682616{4}[source]
Fwiw I believe the comment you are replying to was being sarcastic. Thus, you don't need educating. You're making their point.
13. nucleogenesis ◴[] No.45682657{3}[source]
At that point “human” really only meant the white man who owns property though eh?
replies(1): >>45683164 #
14. hypeatei ◴[] No.45682694[source]
> One must laud the transparency this administration has introduced.

What transparency? What is transparent about running a meme coin that anyone in the world can bribe- sorry, "invest" in with no trace of who they are while you're President?

As for the topic at hand: Trump truly has no vision for anything we do on the world stage so I don't believe it's a deliberate effort at "transparency"

replies(2): >>45682905 #>>45683059 #
15. ks2048 ◴[] No.45682767[source]
This is a dangerous fallacy - "it has always been bad, so it can't get worse".
replies(1): >>45687118 #
16. whateveracct ◴[] No.45682792{4}[source]
The United States' way of government was revolutionary for its time, based on the cutting edge of human philosophy in many ways. The Bills of (negative) Rights in particular.

It is a shame that it is being destroyed at lightspeed the last year, and worse that many don't seem to care.

17. speakfreely ◴[] No.45682905{3}[source]
> Trump truly has no vision for anything we do on the world stage

It confuses me how anyone could look at what's happening in the world and see a lack of a plan. Trump administration seems to actually be unusually focused on foreign policy in this term and using geopolitical statecraft to upend the arrangements that were not working in favor of the US. The tariffs to force countries to choose US or China, putting the fear of Russia in Europe to pump up their defense spending, and the peacemaker strategy in the Middle East to force oil prices down to reduce inflation. It seems to be a very comprehensive strategy.

replies(5): >>45683012 #>>45683019 #>>45683053 #>>45683151 #>>45683496 #
18. jopsen ◴[] No.45682915[source]
The US has had many opportunities to care a lot less!

Just look at what Russia is up to these days.

19. dirtyoldmick ◴[] No.45682920{4}[source]
We didn't want to be ruled by wankers!
replies(1): >>45683541 #
20. cheema33 ◴[] No.45682972[source]
> Allies like Israel can do whatever they like.

US has always looked the other way when Israel killed innocent civilians. But there were some limits on how far they could go. The difference now is that those limits have been removed.

21. hypeatei ◴[] No.45683012{4}[source]
Tariffing the entire world, changing his position on Ukraine every week, and hinting at invasion of our allies is not coherent. On the Ukraine conflict, he didn't seem to understand that Putin is untrustworthy until recently.
22. actionfromafar ◴[] No.45683019{4}[source]
Upending the arrangements that were not working in favor of Trump!
23. lesuorac ◴[] No.45683037{3}[source]
Progress sure but Lincoln didn't free the slaves in the Northern states.

He only freed the slaves in the South with the emancipation proclamation [1]. The 13th amendment wasn't until 2 years later. Lincoln did it as an economic weapon against the south as well as a military recruitment tool; not out of the goodness of his heart.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Proclamation

24. cheema33 ◴[] No.45683053{4}[source]
> Trump administration seems to actually be unusually focused on foreign policy..

You left out threatening to invade Canada if they did not join the US. And stealing Greenland. And asking Ukraine to give in to Putin's demands. Illegal tariffs that are a tax on common people. Yes, it may come as a shock to you that other countries do not pay the tariffs. We do. And unlike regular taxes, tariffs are not a progressive tax. So rich people love it.

By almost all accounts, the US has lost ground globally. We have lost soft power and respect. Global surveys now show that the rest of world now sees us the baddies.

25. propagandist ◴[] No.45683059{3}[source]
It is more transparent than getting out of government then getting "book deals", doing "speaking engagements" and sitting on boards.

"Here's my hat, put some coin in" is transparency.

replies(1): >>45683167 #
26. propagandist ◴[] No.45683144{3}[source]
"Didn't publicize it as much as we would have preferred" is very polite speech for killing millions in "wars on terror" and through arming our great friends, the house of Saud, in their campaign against Yemen.

Not going to get into the rich history of overthrowing local rulers and installing puppets through the most gruesome proxies to create "banana republics," the mass murder on a massive scale committed in the previous century, or the genocide that preceded to enable the founding of this state.

This place is built on murder and theft. "Both sides" are guilty. One is less shy.

27. FridayoLeary ◴[] No.45683151{4}[source]
He's got a very comprehensive plan and he knows exactly what he's doing. He's also consolidated his base so he has people who are as committed as he is to carrying out his vision. He's doing everything he said he would do successfully. All his opponents are desperate for him to fail but that simply is not happening, i wonder why? This website runs opposite to his vision of MAGA, it's basically make america criminals, no surprises it's been axed.
replies(2): >>45683602 #>>45689662 #
28. excalibur ◴[] No.45683164{4}[source]
Baby steps
29. hypeatei ◴[] No.45683167{4}[source]
Transparently corrupt, sure. Who is influencing him still isn't transparent though. Book deals, board positions, and speeches all have organizers, company names, etc.. that can be investigated.

How can you trace a block chain transaction back to someone without some sort of OPSEC slip up?

30. jkestner ◴[] No.45683253[source]
That's what's interesting about this move (and all the other moves). We've stopped pretending we're good, signaling instead the prospect of violence to enemies foreign and domestic.
31. hulitu ◴[] No.45683341[source]
> The US Government has never cared about human rights.

This is a blatant lie. /s

They do care, and have always cared, about human rights. The human rights of the US Government and their sponsors.

32. jimnotgym ◴[] No.45683496{4}[source]
There is a plan, but it is rather half baked and naive.

>putting the fear of Russia in Europe to pump up their defense spending

At the same time as refusing weapons sales to US allies and restricting intelligence sharing. Thereby forcing those countries to spend on European weapons rather than the US ones they have bought for the last 70 years. Doesn't sound great for the US tbh

33. jimnotgym ◴[] No.45683541{5}[source]
I'm sorry that didn't work out for you.
34. bigyabai ◴[] No.45683602{5}[source]
> He's doing everything he said he would do successfully.

I seem to remember him promising that he would release the Epstein Files the moment they were available.

That one's been taking a loooong time. All the ties that Ghislaine and Robert Maxwell have to Israel probably isn't super great for PR either.

35. tastyfreeze ◴[] No.45684558{4}[source]
The colonial grievances that led to war are explicitly stated in the Declaration of Independence.

It can be assumed that the British occupation forces were just as brutal as any other occupying military force in history. The only restraint in those situations is morals and a boss that was across an ocean.

36. hirvi74 ◴[] No.45687118{3}[source]
Do you mind helping my understand how you interpreted my comment in that manner? Such a sentiment was never my intention, and I would like to know how I could have worded my comment better to avoid confusion.

I was merely try to express that things were bad and some progress has been made, however, that does not mean that things cannot get bad again. Both progress and regress are rarely a straight line.

37. cheema33 ◴[] No.45689662{5}[source]
> He's doing everything he said he would do successfully.

He said he would not touch the existing Whitehouse when building his new gilded $300m ballroom. I could go on and on and on...

The dude thinks like a toddler. Unfortunately a large part of this country also thinks this way.