Most active commenters

    ←back to thread

    Sodium-ion batteries have started to appear in cars and home storage

    (cleantechnica.com)
    160 points xbmcuser | 16 comments | 23 Oct 25 01:36 UTC | HN request time: 0.204s | source | bottom
    Show context
    ZeroGravitas ◴[23 Oct 25 08:07 UTC] No.45679414[source]▶
    A parallel worth bearing in mind is that LFP batteries became super popular over the last few years and are now 50% of all EV batteries worldwide, but are still rare in the US.

    This is partly because the US is a richer market with higher end desires but it might mislead people in that geography into thinking that the battery mass manufacturing world moves slowly.

    Meanwhile in the storage market it's gone to 90% LFP as the big deployments take advantage of the cost reductions available.

    In fact the biggest impediment to sodium being rolled out was continuing reductions in LFP cost which made people less enhusiastic for alternatives.

    It appears they've managed to drive costs down even further, prompting its graduation into mass scale manufacture.

    replies(2): >>45679470 #>>45680452 #
    1. IlikeKitties ◴[23 Oct 25 08:17 UTC] No.45679470[source]▶
    I'd prefer LFP Batteries anyway. Much more stable chemistry in regards. Higher Cycle Life, Higher Temperature Stability and they are significantly less likely to blow up or catch fire in an accident. Their only disadvantage is energy density.
    replies(5): >>45679604 #>>45679696 #>>45680054 #>>45680970 #>>45681098 #
    2. alphabetag675 ◴[23 Oct 25 08:37 UTC] No.45679604[source]▶
    Sodium batteries are much better for environment. Sodium is everywhere.
    replies(1): >>45682079 #
    3. Jedd ◴[23 Oct 25 08:49 UTC] No.45679696[source]▶
    If safety is a concern, why not flow storage?

    I see enough reports of Li battery related unpleasantness to be slightly concerned on this front, and for fixed location storage I'm less concerned with density and more so with maintenance and life span.

    TFA talks about (favourable) temperature tolerance of Na, at least at the low end, I didn't see high end figures.

    replies(2): >>45679794 #>>45679881 #
    4. IlikeKitties ◴[23 Oct 25 09:05 UTC] No.45679794[source]▶
    I was mainly talking about cars.
    5. detaro ◴[23 Oct 25 09:19 UTC] No.45679881[source]▶
    Would be great, actually making it work at scale isn't there yet as far as I know? And depending on the chemistry has other downsides.
    6. tonyedgecombe ◴[23 Oct 25 09:48 UTC] No.45680054[source]▶
    I do wonder if you could get away with abusing an LFP battery in a way you wouldn't with NMC. If you don't have to worry about running it down so much then perhaps that makes up for the lower capacity.
    7. PaulKeeble ◴[23 Oct 25 12:16 UTC] No.45680970[source]▶
    Sodium Ion is expected to be quite a bit better on cycle life in the end once its matured, they think it could go 20k or more cycles compared to LFPs 6k.
    replies(2): >>45682002 #>>45682826 #
    8. ghtbircshotbe ◴[23 Oct 25 12:34 UTC] No.45681098[source]▶
    I was under the impression that lfp didn't work in cold temperatures, which is a problem if you want to keep it in a shed so it doesn't burn your house down.
    replies(5): >>45682008 #>>45682878 #>>45683039 #>>45683997 #>>45686075 #
    9. toomuchtodo ◴[23 Oct 25 14:10 UTC] No.45682002[source]▶
    Assuming once daily cycling, that’s ~54 year service life. Wild.

    “One day kids, this stationary storage facility will all be yours.”

    10. beAbU ◴[23 Oct 25 14:10 UTC] No.45682008[source]▶
    In the ESS context, unless you are buying bare cells, I don't think it's possible to buy an LFP battery without built-in heating.
    11. bryanlarsen ◴[23 Oct 25 14:16 UTC] No.45682079[source]▶
    Lithium is common and present everywhere too.
    12. ◴[23 Oct 25 15:17 UTC] No.45682826[source]▶
    13. joemazerino ◴[23 Oct 25 15:20 UTC] No.45682878[source]▶
    Most solar battery banks have moved on to LFP as of last year. They work to 10f if I'm not mistaken. Booting it up before the cold sets in will ensure it can run.
    14. justlikereddit ◴[23 Oct 25 15:33 UTC] No.45683039[source]▶
    LFP have a significantly more stable battery chemistry. Much more abuse tolerant and less likely to suffer thermal runaway. You'd get LFP cells so you won't have to store them in the shed due to fire safety. And while sodium ion batteries would be happy in a frozen shed they're supposed to be even more stable.

    Anyway,sodium ion taking off explains the recurrent deep sales for LFP power stations. Which might still be overpriced if there developments hold up.

    15. scarecrowbob ◴[23 Oct 25 16:43 UTC] No.45683997[source]▶
    Well, I have 15kwh of batteries in a shed (powering my internet connection and this computer, actually). The are mostly in a shed for convenience- I'm not too worried about a fire, personally.

    You can charge them when freezing, but you can discharge them while freezing.

    Discharging them causes their internal temperature to rise.

    Last winter (I'm in the desert in CO at about 6k feet, with temps in the single digits at some points) my graphs say that they never failed to reach 40-something degrees and charge.

    Maybe there are other issues I don't know about, but I certainly hope they work as well this winter as they did last winter.

    16. dzhiurgis ◴[23 Oct 25 19:43 UTC] No.45686075[source]▶
    Most BMS support heating pads, but regardless sodium is superior in cold and will win that segment long term.