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583 points SweetSoftPillow | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.675s | source
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michaelmauderer ◴[] No.45668112[source]
The problem here is not the law, but malicious compliance by websites that don't want to give up tracking.

"Spend Five Minutes in a Menu of Legalese" is not the intended alternative to "Accept All". "Decline All" is! And this is starting to be enforced through the courts, so you're increasingly seeing the "Decline All" option right away. As it should be. https://www.techspot.com/news/108043-german-court-takes-stan...

Of course, also respecting a Do-Not-Track header and avoiding the cookie banner entirely while not tracking the user, would be even better.

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crazygringo ◴[] No.45668318[source]
No, the problem is 100% the law, because it was written in a way that allows this type of malicious compliance.

Laws need to be written well to achieve good outcomes. If the law allows for malicious compliance, it is a badly written law.

The sites are just trying to maximize profit, as anyone could predict. So write better laws.

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hananova ◴[] No.45668630[source]
But the law never allowed this. Enforcement just turned out to be an issue due to the enormity of it all.

Also, please remember that in Europe there is no such thing as "the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law." The intent of the law IS the law.

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actionfromafar ◴[] No.45668693[source]
Honest question, isn't the spirit of the law the same as the intent of the law?
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skrebbel ◴[] No.45668811[source]
Yes and sometimes it's subtly different from the letter of the law. The point is, if I understand it correctly, that in the US, courts always literally interpret the law as written, whereas in the EU there's a culture of sometimes, when the letter of the law super clearly differs from the intent it was obviously written with, siding with the intent of the law rather than the precise wording.
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Peritract ◴[] No.45669407[source]
> in the US, courts always literally interpret the law as written

I think lots of courts claim this, and none actually do.

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actionfromafar ◴[] No.45670243[source]
It’s the same problem as those reading the Scripture literally. You can’t. You are reading a translation, for starters. To come even close, you need a subtle understanding of semite languages, culture and Greek, depending on your denomination. You need some guidance when reading, whether that is the Holy Ghost, your pastor, or a decade or two of yeshiva school.
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AnthonyMouse ◴[] No.45675575[source]
The problem here is that people need some way to know if doing something will incur a penalty before they actually do it.

One way to do that is to interpret the law strictly according to the text, or in the case of ambiguity to choose the interpretation that benefits the accused rather than the government. Then you could just read the law to know if it prohibits what you want to do, because unless it unambiguously does, then it doesn't. And then if the government doesn't like it once they see someone doing that, it's up to them to change the law.

Another is to give people a way to get clarification ahead of time. This is called advisory opinions and governments generally hate them because as soon as you allow it, the government is going to be absolutely swamped with requests for clarification because everybody wants to pre-clear everything they're going to do rather than take the risk of getting punished for doing something without clearing it. But in order for this to work, getting a clarification has to be cheap, because "pay a million dollars for an advisory opinion to avoid the risk of a million dollar fine" isn't a real solution to the problem of people getting punished when the law is unclear.

So the first one is actually better, the only "problem" with it is that you need the government to be paying attention and promptly rework the law when it isn't having the intended effect, otherwise you'll have people complaining about it because in the meantime there is a dumb law on the books. But if your government is bad at making good laws then you're going to have a bad time no matter what.

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aleph_minus_one ◴[] No.45676149[source]
> Another is to give people a way to get clarification ahead of time. This is called advisory opinions and governments generally hate them because as soon as you allow it, the government is going to be absolutely swamped with requests for clarification because everybody wants to pre-clear everything they're going to do rather than take the risk of getting punished for doing something without clearing it. But in order for this to work, getting a clarification has to be cheap, because "pay a million dollars for an advisory opinion to avoid the risk of a million dollar fine" isn't a real solution to the problem of people getting punished when the law is unclear.

A partial solution to this problem is: write laws in a way that need a lot less clarification because there is rarely a need for it because the laws are thought out so well.

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AnthonyMouse ◴[] No.45678362[source]
I too would like a free pony.
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1. aleph_minus_one ◴[] No.45678969[source]
This is rather about free ensurance that the country won't use violence (the state authority) against you.
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2. AnthonyMouse ◴[] No.45679067[source]
It's pretty obvious that they don't currently write laws that way, so the question is, what do you propose to change that would cause them to?
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3. aleph_minus_one ◴[] No.45679930[source]
A very first step could be to to brutally expose every politician who voted for such shittily designed laws.

Not doing that is a civic duty that I expect from every politician who wants to be considered to be more trustworthy than a child molester who has relapsed several times.