←back to thread

Criticisms of “The Body Keeps the Score”

(josepheverettwil.substack.com)
267 points adityaathalye | 3 comments | 22 Oct 25 18:49 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
softwaredoug ◴[22 Oct 25 20:13 UTC] No.45674571[source]▶
This article (and author) seems to be something of a trauma-skeptic, which doesn't seem to agree with mainstream science (setting aside Body Keeps the Score)

> That is, trauma doesn’t lead to dysfunction or abnormal brain function, physiology or hormonal regulation. Rather, an unhealthy person may be more susceptible to trauma.

What has been documented about Adverse Childhood Experiences doesn’t agree with this. There is copious evidence that the presence of ACEs, independent of other factors, leads to poor health outcomes [1]

It's also well known that past trauma predisposes you to future trauma [2]

There's also data indicating CPTSD, PTSD, and Borderline are distinct disorders [3]

1 - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8882933/ https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s...

2 - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5858954/

3 - https://www.psychiatrypodcast.com/psychiatry-psychotherapy-p...

replies(11): >>45674663 #>>45675026 #>>45676644 #>>45676731 #>>45676884 #>>45677092 #>>45677381 #>>45678481 #>>45678796 #>>45679786 #>>45679962 #
taeric ◴[22 Oct 25 20:21 UTC] No.45674663[source]▶
I think there is a bit of a crowd that is pushing the idea that you can make events worse by telling people that they are forever scarred from them? That is, yes, some trauma sticks with you. History shows people are also very resilient at moving on from trauma. Kind of have to be, so that we aren't devastated when we ultimately do lose some family.

Would be like saying you should hammer people on how much grieve they must be feeling because they lost a dog. Now, nor should you also scold people for feeling said grief. It is very personal and hard to really know what experience someone will have until they have it.

replies(7): >>45674793 #>>45675257 #>>45675685 #>>45677040 #>>45677356 #>>45678051 #>>45678276 #
motorest ◴[23 Oct 25 04:56 UTC] No.45678276[source]▶
> That is, yes, some trauma sticks with you. History shows people are also very resilient at moving on from trauma. Kind of have to be, so that we aren't devastated when we ultimately do lose some family.

This is textbook survivorship bias. If you try hard enough you'll eventually discover a never-ending list of examples where people never recovered from trauma and even outright died directly or indirectly die to it.

replies(1): >>45678447 #
1. taeric ◴[23 Oct 25 05:30 UTC] No.45678447[source]▶
This is just taking my point to be maximal that people always recovered from these things. I don't think that. But nor do I take what seems to be the near maximal other side, where everyone is fighting some hidden trauma from their childhood.
replies(1): >>45678806 #
2. motorest ◴[23 Oct 25 06:28 UTC] No.45678806[source]▶
> But nor do I take what seems to be the near maximal other side, where everyone is fighting some hidden trauma from their childhood.

I think you're trying too hard to downplay a problem by questioning the extent it exists. Perhaps a more productive approach is to try to learn about the topic, starting by learning about the definition of psychological and emotional problem. It's quite possible that your denial is founded on a misplaced sense of what trauma is or isn't.

replies(1): >>45678977 #
3. taeric ◴[23 Oct 25 06:56 UTC] No.45678977[source]▶
I think you are still taking my point to a maximal position that I don't hold. People need help all the time. It shouldn't take trauma to get people to agree on that point.

Good help will be goal oriented, though. And the goal is not to maximize your focus on the trauma to make sure you have experienced it all. The goal is to grow for whatever you need, now.

This is true of physical trauma. You don't sit with people and teach them all of the ways that their body has been broken when they get a physical injury. You identify the goals and exercises that they will need to do to achieve them. In many cases, you have to reset realistic goals.

I'm sympathetic to the idea that sometimes you have to tease out what the actual blockage is. In that search, you may be helped by discussing the underlying trauma. But that is firmly in the land of probabilistic approaches where we explicitly don't know a lot.