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Criticisms of “The Body Keeps the Score”

(josepheverettwil.substack.com)
250 points adityaathalye | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.272s | source
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softwaredoug ◴[] No.45674571[source]
This article (and author) seems to be something of a trauma-skeptic, which doesn't seem to agree with mainstream science (setting aside Body Keeps the Score)

> That is, trauma doesn’t lead to dysfunction or abnormal brain function, physiology or hormonal regulation. Rather, an unhealthy person may be more susceptible to trauma.

What has been documented about Adverse Childhood Experiences doesn’t agree with this. There is copious evidence that the presence of ACEs, independent of other factors, leads to poor health outcomes [1]

It's also well known that past trauma predisposes you to future trauma [2]

There's also data indicating CPTSD, PTSD, and Borderline are distinct disorders [3]

1 - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8882933/ https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s...

2 - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5858954/

3 - https://www.psychiatrypodcast.com/psychiatry-psychotherapy-p...

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taeric ◴[] No.45674663[source]
I think there is a bit of a crowd that is pushing the idea that you can make events worse by telling people that they are forever scarred from them? That is, yes, some trauma sticks with you. History shows people are also very resilient at moving on from trauma. Kind of have to be, so that we aren't devastated when we ultimately do lose some family.

Would be like saying you should hammer people on how much grieve they must be feeling because they lost a dog. Now, nor should you also scold people for feeling said grief. It is very personal and hard to really know what experience someone will have until they have it.

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crazygringo ◴[] No.45675257[source]
> History shows people are also very resilient at moving on from trauma.

That's the "classical" mindset that modern empirical studies are refuting.

Actually, no, people are often not very resilient at all in moving on from trauma. They suffer greatly, they traumatize others, and it affects their health.

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taeric ◴[] No.45675703[source]
On this, then, I would generally have a hard time agreeing. I'd be comfortable with the idea that not everyone is very resilient. I'd expect that. If the claim, then, is that there is an absurdly high variance there, I'd agree.

But I'm also growingly sympathetic to the idea that telling people they are, in fact, traumatized, is not healthy. People are, as a rule, susceptible to what they are told. Especially from authority.

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Schmerika ◴[] No.45675756[source]
> People are, as a rule, susceptible to what they are told.

Research shows that suggestibility is actually moderately correlated with trauma.

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Jensson ◴[] No.45676683[source]
If so then its true, telling traumatized people that they are traumatized makes it worse for them.
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paulryanrogers ◴[] No.45676782[source]
Correlation is ~not~ [actually] causation?
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Xelbair ◴[] No.45676926[source]
how do you determine causation from correlation in experiment where you are unable to separate all the factors? you can't.

not agreeing with one side or other - because i frankly don't know enough about it to form an opinion, but using "correlation != causation" is basically a discussion stopper.

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paulryanrogers ◴[] No.45677678[source]
My point is their claim assumes causation despite the fact that we may never be able to prove it. I.e. a strong claim with no evidence besides a correlation.
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1. Jensson ◴[] No.45677988[source]
Nobody suggested there was a causation here as that doesn't matter for what was talked about.