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Criticisms of “The Body Keeps the Score”

(josepheverettwil.substack.com)
249 points adityaathalye | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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softwaredoug ◴[] No.45674571[source]
This article (and author) seems to be something of a trauma-skeptic, which doesn't seem to agree with mainstream science (setting aside Body Keeps the Score)

> That is, trauma doesn’t lead to dysfunction or abnormal brain function, physiology or hormonal regulation. Rather, an unhealthy person may be more susceptible to trauma.

What has been documented about Adverse Childhood Experiences doesn’t agree with this. There is copious evidence that the presence of ACEs, independent of other factors, leads to poor health outcomes [1]

It's also well known that past trauma predisposes you to future trauma [2]

There's also data indicating CPTSD, PTSD, and Borderline are distinct disorders [3]

1 - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8882933/ https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s...

2 - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5858954/

3 - https://www.psychiatrypodcast.com/psychiatry-psychotherapy-p...

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taeric ◴[] No.45674663[source]
I think there is a bit of a crowd that is pushing the idea that you can make events worse by telling people that they are forever scarred from them? That is, yes, some trauma sticks with you. History shows people are also very resilient at moving on from trauma. Kind of have to be, so that we aren't devastated when we ultimately do lose some family.

Would be like saying you should hammer people on how much grieve they must be feeling because they lost a dog. Now, nor should you also scold people for feeling said grief. It is very personal and hard to really know what experience someone will have until they have it.

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crazygringo ◴[] No.45675257[source]
> History shows people are also very resilient at moving on from trauma.

That's the "classical" mindset that modern empirical studies are refuting.

Actually, no, people are often not very resilient at all in moving on from trauma. They suffer greatly, they traumatize others, and it affects their health.

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jaybrendansmith ◴[] No.45675912[source]
"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" - maybe sometimes if you're an adult. But not childhood trauma...that makes you weaker almost every time, and you take that weakness with you and spread it around.
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taeric ◴[] No.45676410[source]
I didn't say that, though? Some things that don't kill you can, obviously, make you really really weak. Isn't hard to find examples on that front. Polio is the poster case.

But thinking kids are made weaker from any and all trauma is just reductive to the point of not useful.

I suspect we would largely align on the idea that growth is the important part. We would also largely agree that trauma is real. Question is how do you combine those ideas?

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1. crazygringo ◴[] No.45677713[source]
> But thinking kids are made weaker from any and all trauma is just reductive to the point of not useful.

Huh? No, that's the whole point, how important and useful it is.

It's to separate out the non-traumatic experiences where you recover just fine... from the genuinely traumatic experiences that do harm you, and for which professional help is really useful in recovering from.

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2. taeric ◴[] No.45678427[source]
But you haven't separated these things out. You have definitionally stated that some things exist. But you have no method to separate the genuinely traumatic from the potentially traumatic.

Broken bones. Death in the family. Death of the family. Moving. Friends changing. Attacks from coyotes. Loss of pets through unknown reasons. Loss of neighborhood friends to suicide? Which of these is genuinely traumatic?

My point is that this is very individual to the kid. I further posit that many kids will make things more traumatic if you ask them to do so.

Worse, I have seen "was rude to me at camp two years ago" be a significant source of grievance to kids. The whole elevator scene of "I hate you" versus "I never even think of you" is very very real.

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