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Criticisms of “The Body Keeps the Score”

(josepheverettwil.substack.com)
250 points adityaathalye | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.51s | source
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nostrademons ◴[] No.45674652[source]
So I had a therapist give me EMDR about 5 years ago for little-T trauma. I have no idea whether EMDR is scientifically back or not or whether trauma is overdiagnosed, I just know it worked for me.

But what she said about the therapy (since I always want to know how everything works) is that trauma is basically emotional memory. Y’know how you might have a visual memory about how a certain place looked like when you visited, or sensual memory of how a favorite food tasted, or muscle memory for how to ride a bike, or cognitive memory of how to solve a math problem? The same thing happens with emotions - they get stored away in the brain’s memory centers and can intrude on your present at some later time.

But emotion, by definition, is “that which causes motion”. So if you have a bunch of traumatic memories (oftentimes not even with visual or cognitive components - mine didn’t have them), those emotions continue to influence how you behave for years afterwards. That’s what memory is.

And the point of EMDR is that for some unknown reason, the act of focusing your eyes across the parts of your visual field controlled by different hemispheres forces those emotional memories back into consciousness, where you can then recast and retrigger them based on present-day experience. It literally is implanting false memories - that’s the point - but you want false memory of the event because the true emotional memory is no longer serving you well in the present.

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1. Aerroon ◴[] No.45677331[source]
>where you can then recast and retrigger them based on present-day experience. It literally is implanting false memories - that’s the point - but you want false memory of the event because the true emotional memory is no longer serving you well in the present.

I have a hard time seeing this. I find it incredibly difficult to fool myself intentionally. Any time I try my brain just remembers it in a way where I don't get fooled.

Also, the mechanism you explained implies that you could get rid of trauma by yourself any time you remembered the traumatic experience and just blasted yourself with another emotion. Eg eat chocolate when you remember that painful fall.

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2. ◴[] No.45677449[source]
3. nostrademons ◴[] No.45678364[source]
> I find it incredibly difficult to fool myself intentionally

I'd call it more recontextualizing than fooling yourself. Here's a science analogy:

As a toddler, you probably learned that the sun is up during daytime and down during nighttime. As an older kid, you likely learned that it rises in the east and sets in the west. The ancient geocentric viewpoint was that the sun goes around the earth. Ptolemy noticed that this doesn't match the observed data exactly, and so introduced the idea of "epicycles". A couple thousand years later, Copernicus discarded the idea of the earth as the center of the universe, and proposed that the earth revolves around the sun. Kepler refined Copernicus's ideas into the planets moving in ellipses, with the sun at one focus. Einstein then discarded the idea of having a central point at all, all motion is relative if you set up the correct metric tensors to model acceleration and gravity. But then if you ask a mathematician, Ptolemy was correct in the first place, his idea of epicycles was just a Fourier series decomposition of the observed measurements of the position of planets, and no more or less legit than any other mathematical model that explains the data. The math was just hard to work with.

All of these viewpoints are true, but they explain your senses in more or less detail, and progressively newer and more complex models are capable of explaining a greater variety of situations in greater precision.

The same with emotions. As a kid, the time your mother lost you in the mall was your whole world, because your mother was your whole world. You may have learned that big open spaces filled with crowds are not safe, and carried that forward with you as part of your model of the world. But the point of therapy is to contextualize that emotion, to realize that it was one time, and your life is very different now. You learn to feel it as an emotion, and as a memory, complete with context and everything else, and not as an unconscious rule of thumb that you need to live your life by.

> Also, the mechanism you explained implies that you could get rid of trauma by yourself any time you remembered the traumatic experience

You can! That's the amazing part. Once you've actually had successful EMDR sessions, you can learn the pathways to access your emotions, and just do it by yourself while you're lying in bed. There are apps for it too. And eventually, once you get adept enough at just accessing your emotions and feeling your feelings, you can dispense with the lights too and just recognize what you're feeling in the moment.

Now I just spend the car ride to work or back home decompressing and feeling all the unpleasant emotions that I bottle up during the day because it's my job. If you're doing it right, you can get rid of the therapist after a few years and become emotionally self-sufficient.

4. dang ◴[] No.45678471[source]
What you're touching on here is a deep and persistent question in the history of psychotherapy: is it therapeutic to provide "reparative experience" (something that heals the original pain in a way that didn't happen at the time), or is that an illusion? in which case perhaps it is better to help the client adapt to reality (what actually happened at the time, painful though it may be).