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116 points mooreds | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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NDizzle[dead post] ◴[] No.45655702[source]
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throwaway48476 ◴[] No.45656040[source]
Haiti failed to develop, south africa is developing in reverse.
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MSFT_Edging ◴[] No.45656120[source]
Haiti was in debt to france over freeing themselves from slavery, with a debt structure designed to never be paid off.
replies(1): >>45656191 #
throwaway48476 ◴[] No.45656191[source]
Haiti and the DR only diverged economically after the debt ended. It's not a convincing argument.
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MSFT_Edging ◴[] No.45656315[source]
The debt kneecapped the potential for development. It's not a difficult concept.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/05/20/world/america...

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1. newyankee ◴[] No.45656653{4}[source]
I mean you scratch a lot of commentators on colonialism anywhere in the West and deep enough you will find an apologist.

While there might be structural issues in Haiti, a colonial apologist starts with simplified one sided history -> The colonizers civilized the country -> the people deserved it -> The better side won, survival of the fittest

What I have seen is that unlike the Star Trek post scarcity world visions, all discussions are stuck at some sort of national or ethnic identities at one end or a very simplified oppressed vs oppressor ideology at the other end which prevents discussing many ideologies based on their teachings through a modern civilized lens.

It does not look like the divisions would ever improve because we are now moving into a post labor world and the asymmetry is probably a feature that defines geopolitical clout and power and no one has the incentive to think bigger.

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2. JuniperMesos ◴[] No.45658597[source]
Star Trek is a sci-fi franchise written mostly by American liberals with a specific vision of what society ought to look like hundreds of years in the future (and who are generally not interested in exploring in detail more material questions like, how precisely does the world become post-scarcity). Haiti is a bad place to be right now in real life.

The colonialist apologist case with respect to Haiti is something like: rich white nations are already spending money and other resources providing humanitarian aid to Haiti, because the human need there is real and the native Haitian government is not capable of governing in a way that would fix these problems. If those same rich white nations were actually formally in charge of Haiti in a neo-colonialist poltical arrangement, they could govern it better and improve the lives of the average Haitian in a material sense. It's not directly related to the colonial history of Haiti, which is over 200 years in the past at this point.

I personally think there are serious issues with this argument, but it's not completely crazy to suggest that the revealed preference of many Haitians is to live under the governance of rich white countries, especially in light of Haitian immigration to the US which was a major issue in the 2024 US presidential election.