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Production RAG: what I learned from processing 5M+ documents

(blog.abdellatif.io)
548 points tifa2up | 4 comments | 20 Oct 25 15:55 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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mediaman ◴[20 Oct 25 17:22 UTC] No.45646532[source]▶
The point about synthetic query generation is good. We found users had very poor queries, so we initially had the LLM generate synthetic queries. But then we found that the results could vary widely based on the specific synthetic query it generated, so we had it create three variants (all in one LLM call, so that you can prompt it to generate a wide variety, instead of getting three very similar ones back), do parallel search, and then use reciprocal rank fusion to combine the list into a set of broadly strong performers. For the searches we use hybrid dense + sparse bm25, since dense doesn't work well for technical words.

This, combined with a subsequent reranker, basically eliminated any of our issues on search.

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siva7 ◴[20 Oct 25 18:20 UTC] No.45647255[source]▶
Boy, that should not be the concern of the end user (developer) but those implementing RAG solutions as a service at Amazon, Microsoft, Openai and so on.
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pamelafox ◴[20 Oct 25 20:13 UTC] No.45648705[source]▶
At Microsoft, that's all baked into Azure AI Search - hybrid search does BM25, vector search, and re-ranking, just with setting booleans to true. It also has a new Agentic retrieval feature that does the query rewriting and parallel search execution.

Disclosure: I work at MS and help maintain our most popular open-source RAG template, so I follow the best practices closely: https://github.com/Azure-Samples/azure-search-openai-demo/

So few developers realize that you need more than just vector search, so I still spend many of my talks emphasizing the FULL retrieval stack for RAG. It's also possible to do it on top of other DBs like Postgres, but takes more effort.

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1. cipherself ◴[21 Oct 25 00:04 UTC] No.45650931{3}[source]▶
I am working on search but rather for text-to-image retrieval, nevertheless, I am curious if by that's all baked into Azure AI search you also meant synthetic query generation from the grandparent comment. If so, what's your latency for this? And do you extract structured data from the query? If so, do you use LLMs for that?

Moreover I am curious why you guys use bm25 over SPLADE?

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2. pamelafox ◴[21 Oct 25 06:35 UTC] No.45653068[source]▶
Yes, AI Search has a new agentic retrieval feature that includes synthetic query generation: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/azure-ai-foundry-bl... You can customize the model used and the max # of queries to generate, so latency depends on those factors, plus the length of the conversation history passed in. The model is usually gpt-4o or gpt-4.1 or the -mini of those, so it's the standard latency for those. A more recent version of that feature also uses the LLM to dynamically decide which of several indices to query, and executes the searches in parallel.

That query generation approach does not extract structured data. I do maintain another RAG template for PostgreSQL that uses function calling to turn the query into a structured query, such that I can construct SQL filters dynamically. Docs here: https://github.com/Azure-Samples/rag-postgres-openai-python/...

I'll ask the search about SPLADE, not sure.

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3. cipherself ◴[21 Oct 25 10:32 UTC] No.45654306[source]▶
Got it, I think this might make sense for a "conversation" type of search not for an instant search feature because lowest latency is gonna be too high IMO.
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4. pmc00 ◴[21 Oct 25 15:33 UTC] No.45657075{3}[source]▶
Fair point on latency, we (Azure AI Search) target both scenarios with different features. For instant search you can just do the usual hybrid + rerank combo, or if you want query rewriting to improve user queries, you can enable QR at a moderate latency hit. We evaluated this approach at length here: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/azure-ai-foundry-bl...

Of course, agentic retrieval is just better quality-wise for a broader set of scenarios, usual quality-latency trade-off.

We don't do SPLADE today. We've explored it and may get back to it at some point, but we ended up investing more on reranking to boost precision, we've found we have fewer challenges on the recall side.