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Ask HN: How does one build large front end apps without a framework like React?

94 points thepianodan | 2 comments | 17 Oct 25 10:50 UTC | HN request time: 0.455s | source

I had a mind-blown-moment when I learnt that Obsidian was built without any frontend JS framework. ( https://forum.obsidian.md/t/what-framework-did-the-developer-use-to-create-obsidian-desktop-application/30724/11 )

The benefits, I can see.

    JS frameworks move really quickly, and when we're working on a large, long-term project, it sucks when big breaking changes are introduced after only a couple of years. Sticking to slow-moving web standards (which are quite mature by now) increases the longevity of a project.

    And the stability also means that more time is spent on delivering features, rather than on fixing compatibility issues.

    There is also the benefit of independence. The project's success is not tied to the framework's success. And it also makes the project more secure, from supply chain attacks and such.

    Because there is no "abstraction layer" of a framework, you also have greater control over your project, and can make performance optimizations at a lower level.

    I feel not using a framework can even make us a better developer. Because we know more of what's going on.
There are benefits to using frameworks too, I'm not here to challenge that.

But this alternative of using none... it seems rarely talked about. I want to learn more about building large (preferably web-based) software projects with few dependencies.

Do you have any suggestions on how to learn more about it? Are there any open source projects you know which are built this way? It needs to be large, complex, app-like, and browser based. I'm more interested in the frontend side.

Thank you!

1. yawnxyz ◴[17 Oct 25 16:50 UTC] No.45618935[source]▶
I build a lot of micro sites, but I still use frameworks — like Deno (node alternative), Hono (for APIs), and Alpine.js (for tiny lightweight sites).

you don't have to though!

if you want to do more pure vanilla, understanding signals is really useful — this basically powers svelte's runs and react's hooks and whatever.

I love nanostores, a 286 byte (!) state manager that lets you build highly reactive pages w/o the weight: https://github.com/nanostores/nanostores

flexible tools like tinybase (https://github.com/tinyplex/tinybase) and unstorage (https://github.com/unjs/unstorage) are also super useful

tools like this lets you build highly reactive, engaging sites that load for under 50-100kb

replies(1): >>45624020 #
2. actinium226 ◴[18 Oct 25 01:20 UTC] No.45624020[source]▶
+1 for nanostores. It's great that it works standalone, but what's also nice is that they have tools to let you use it with React. It's much cleaner and more intuitive than React contexts which is how you're supposed to do global state in React, I think.