Ask HN: How does one build large front end apps without a framework like React?

JS frameworks move really quickly, and when we're working on a large, long-term project, it sucks when big breaking changes are introduced after only a couple of years. Sticking to slow-moving web standards (which are quite mature by now) increases the longevity of a project. And the stability also means that more time is spent on delivering features, rather than on fixing compatibility issues. There is also the benefit of independence. The project's success is not tied to the framework's success. And it also makes the project more secure, from supply chain attacks and such. Because there is no "abstraction layer" of a framework, you also have greater control over your project, and can make performance optimizations at a lower level. I feel not using a framework can even make us a better developer. Because we know more of what's going on.

The important thing in any "large" application is to set consistent patterns for doing common tasks: creating UI components, re-using them, updating their content as a result of data changes (reactivity), etc. This can be done with or without a framework.

A framework establishes a large portion of those patterns upfront. If the framework is a popular one (e.g. React) rather than an in-house one, it makes it easier to quickly ramp up hires and have a lot of documentation/examples online. Popular frameworks also implicitly contain a lot of knowledge from years of feedback from thousands of devs exercising its APIs and providing feedback, so they're typically pretty good at solving common use cases.

Obsidian was initially built by a single developer. One of the best that I have the pleasure of knowing, but when you're one person, it's much easier to create your own pattern and have it work for yourself. They have since hired maybe 2 other devs, with minimal intention of hiring more, so ease of onboarding isn't a significant concern to them the way it would be for most companies (and "large" frontend apps more often than not require larger teams, by definition).