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156 points Sean-Der | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source

Alt link: https://mrchristmas.com/products/santas-magical-telephone

Video demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z7QJxZWFQg

The first time I talked with AI santa and it responded with a joke I was HOOKED. The fun/nonsense doesn't click until you try it yourself. What's even more exciting is you can build it yourself:

libpeer: https://github.com/sepfy/libpeer

pion: https://github.com/pion/webrtc

Then go do all your fun logic in your Pion server. Connect to any Voice AI provider, or roll your own via Open Source. Anything is possible.

If you have questions or hit any roadblocks I would love to help you. I have lots of hardware snippets on my GitHub: https://github.com/sean-der.

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gyomu ◴[] No.45575739[source]
This is why everyone not in technology hates us.

I'm a technologist. I get it, on some level it's kinda cool that we have the technology to bring this thing into the world, and so of course one wants to build it and make it real.

Breadboarding it as a fun weekend project is one thing. But making it exist as a product sold on Walmart.com is another.

What is the point, exactly? I mean this as a serious question to think about, not as a blanket dismissal. Any object, by the mere fact that it exists, demands something from the people it is put in contact with. What behaviors does it encourage, what beliefs does it promote, what skills does it exercise?

If I spend 60 minutes with my kids writing a physical letter to Santa, then going out and putting it in a mailbox, I have a fair sense of the answers to the questions above, and whether those answers are things I want to encourage or not.

If they spend 60 minutes interacting with this object, I'm not so sure I feel so confident about the answers.

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Sean-Der ◴[] No.45575802[source]
How is roleplay with this object different then other toys? If you get lost in a D&D game is that bad because the world isn't real? Getting lost in Myst and making Doom WADs was a joy I have always been trying to recapture. I am constantly looking for a way to do that for others.

What do you think of my take here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45575175? These 'LLM Role play' toys have hit a real fun spot with my kids.

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gyomu ◴[] No.45578838[source]
> How is roleplay with this object different than other toys?

Traditional role play is driven by the child and their imagination, and is essentially free of constraints. This is driven by the technology, follows a narrow script, and only allows for a single mode of engagement. Not saying that makes it good or bad, but they're clearly 2 different modes of play.

> If you get lost in a D&D game is that bad because the world isn't real

D&D is fundamentally a social activity (by definition, you can't play D&D alone)...

> Getting lost in Myst

...enjoying a piece of art built by a creative team with an artistic vision...

> making Doom WADs

... an open ended, constructive activity that exercises various skills and that gives you something to share/show for it.

Do you really not see how all of the above are fundamentally different from interacting with this black box that pretends to be something it's not (a human voice), is fundamentally extractive because of the technology it runs on (pay more for more time with it), not to get into the fact that a) the data gets siphoned off to a corporation with its own profit motives and b) there is absolutely 0 guarantee that the simulation can't go off rails?

> These 'LLM Role play' toys have hit a real fun spot with my kids.

Coca-Cola and McDonald's hit a real fun spot with kids as well. This on its own is a weak argument of value.

Clearly playing with this for a bit isn't going to be catastrophic for the child (although $99 for 60 minutes of play, with pay-for-more beyond that point, is a pretty darn steep asking price, if you ask me - and if the child enjoys it, it means they will be begging their parent to cough up more money for more time - a pretty poor success case for a toy. Normally once a toy is bought, infinite time can be spent with it with no further financial transaction).

Is it desirable to build a world where kids spend more time with this category of toy over others (in effect priming them for being an AI girlfriend/boyfriend app subscriber a few years down the line)?

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1. Sean-Der ◴[] No.45579954[source]
My experience with D&D was on the computer. I didn’t have friends that would play with me. I didn’t feel constrained by having computer driving the story. Games like Baldurs Gate pulled away from unhappy things happening otherwise.

id software had a profit motive right? As a kid it didn’t occur to me. I just nagged my parents to pay for Doom/Heretic.

I also have done everything to encourage/empower DIY. My hope is that users that are curious can learn more/build it themselves.

> Normally once a toy is bought, infinite time can be spent with it with no further financial transaction

I can’t think of any case where that is true. Books/toys all get worn and may need to be replaced. I have bought my son the same toy forklift three times because it breaks and he really loves it.

> Is it desirable to build a world where kids spend more time with this category of toy over others

I would rather see my kids play with this technology than consumption only (videos). Other play is better then doing Santa role play, but this isn’t close to be worse at all.

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2. kwindla ◴[] No.45583183[source]
I 100% agree with Sean that the computer is an exploration machine. There are lots of net positive things for kids (and non-kids) that LLMs make possible. Just like there were lots of net positive things that an Internet connection makes possible.

Of course there are things technologies can do that are bad. For kids. For adults. For societies. But I build this kind of voice+LLM stuff, too, and have a kid, and the exploration, play, and learning opportunities here are really, really amazing.

For example, we are within reach of giving every child in the world a personalized, infinitely patient tutor that can cover any subject at the right level for that child. This doesn't replace classroom teachers. It augments what you can do in school, and what kids will be able to do outside of school hours.

3. gyomu ◴[] No.45586248[source]
My guy, such a bad faith argument to say “books and toys wear out too” to justify an API locked toy that costs $100 for one hour.

There are books, lego bricks, and other toys in my family that have now gone through three generations of kids and are ready for a fourth.

I understand you’re fighting hard to defend the thing you built, but come on.

And yeah, if you’re comparing this to TikTok brainrot, sure, I guess it’s one step above.