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625 points zdw | 19 comments | | HN request time: 1.239s | source | bottom
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tptacek ◴[] No.45397384[source]
It's funny to me that in portraying Indiana as a "blank state" he's highlighting one of the most beautiful parts of the state (the route through the Dunes along the Michigan lakefront; if you've seen "Road To Perdition", you know what that area looks like). It's not important to the article, a complete tangent, but I can't not call that out.
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Arainach ◴[] No.45397758[source]
Then again, that stretch also has Gary.

Having grown up in that area of the Midwest, I largely agree with the author's categorization, except that "people on their way to somewhere better who got tired and decided this was good enough" describes a LOT of the midwest, not just Indiana. Significant chunks of Michigan, Ohio, and Missouri, most of Iowa/Kansas/Nebraska, etc.

If you read the history of westward expansion, "got tired and decided this was good enough" is literally true for how much of the area got initially settled (by white people)

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1. kyledrake ◴[] No.45398434[source]
It's really easy to write off a giant part of the country that millions of people live in as tired (and the implication underneath is usually "backward"), it's also dehumanizing them and makes assumptions about their quality of life when it might actually be a lot better than the people making these assumptions.

Spend some time not just driving through them, and one may be surprised to find plenty of diverse and interesting people that live full lives with rich family and social bonds, reasonably priced housing, ample winter outdoor activities (a lot of people actually want snow because it's beautiful and you can do fun things with it) and plenty of nearby nature and recreation opportunities, which I would contrast less unfavorably than the zeitgeist against the crowded, expensive vagrant culture that tends to dominate the more popular places on earth.

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2. jb1991 ◴[] No.45398453[source]
The phrase “got tired “is not referring to the modern populations but rather the people who founded those original settlements in those states centuries ago.
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3. kyledrake ◴[] No.45398546[source]
They didn't "get tired", they found rich soil and ample water to do farming and milling, which is what they were intending to find. It's called the bread basket of America for a reason.
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4. hollerith ◴[] No.45398569{3}[source]
Agree: a farmer coming to Indiana having previous farmed in New England or New York would have thought he'd died and went to farmer heaven.
5. Arainach ◴[] No.45398622[source]
I lived in the area for more than 20 years, have annually visited family living there for my entire life even after I left, and consider myself quite qualified to comment on the area, the people who live there, and their culture, thanks.

I've traveled a lot through the area. I was throughout Ohio earlier this year, spent two weeks in Illinois last year, etc.

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6. jb1991 ◴[] No.45398766{3}[source]
In some places, some people absolutely could not endure the long travels to the West Coast, for example the Oregon Trail was extremely difficult and many people quit somewhere in the middle and settled into those Midwestern states. Yes they did in fact get tired, in some situations.
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7. kyledrake ◴[] No.45400228[source]
If I'm allowed to be anecdotal too I've also spent a decent amount of time in the area, including a visit to Bloomington, Indiana to visit their Informatics school, which was full of very interesting, open people that were absolutely wonderful and invited us into their world for a weekend.

The last night there I had dinner at one of the professors' houses in a very nice neighborhood that was absolutely lovely, and in general I thought it was a solid middle class place to live. If it was plopped in the middle of Silicon Valley it would be considered one of the more bucolic and put together cities in the area. And unlike Greenland, the weather is quite good for much of the year and there are trees.

My personal experience does not match the image of tired, doomed NPCs living in a wasteland that it's painted as in this blog post and in these comments.

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8. Arainach ◴[] No.45400291{3}[source]
University towns are exceptions that the rural and suburban parts of these states largely hate. They are the tiny pleasant exception to the whole that is not representative.

Ann Arbor is a nice town. Bloomington sounds like a nice town. The vast majority of Indiana and Michigan are sparsely populated and full of people who distrust anyone not like them and are not interested in broadening their experiences.

"Got tired and decided this is good enough" is literally true - small town midwest America is full of the kind of people who don't want to travel or experience new things because they're content in their house with their hobby and their 6 friends and trying to do something like understand how to ride a bus is terrifying.

This is not a stereotype. I know tons of these people. I got out of the midwest to get away from them.

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9. ◴[] No.45400402[source]
10. potato3732842 ◴[] No.45400458{4}[source]
University towns are a dump of businesses of questionable morals extracting as much as they can from a transient population. They're basically military base towns. And both of those are basically tourism or retirement towns which are almost as bad (source: grew up in one). The difference its that tourism towns and retirement towns get their population voluntarily, without a bunch of brainwashing.

I'll side with the "Indiana ain't bad" crowd on this.

11. dmurray ◴[] No.45400643{4}[source]
What was so special about Oregon, anyway, that it was worth a deadly trek across the country to go there?

Wasn't it just that it wasn't yet settled, so you could settle there and claim some land? That implies that Indiana or anywhere else on the way would have been at least as desirable, but someone else got there first.

12. sgarland ◴[] No.45400706{3}[source]
They farm corn and soy almost exclusively, because those are heavily subsidized by the USG. Most of America’s fruits and vegetables come from elsewhere.

Source: I lived in Nebraska and Indiana.

13. sgarland ◴[] No.45400830[source]
The giant parts of the country routinely vote against their own self-interests, and refuse to accept evidence to this effect.
14. tomcam ◴[] No.45400853{3}[source]
I thought that was California. Not trying to be argumentative.
15. linehedonist ◴[] No.45401055[source]
I would assume most of those 20 years were your childhood? How many years have you lived in the Midwest as an adult?
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16. doom2 ◴[] No.45401478[source]
> Spend some time not just driving through them, and one may be surprised to find plenty of diverse and interesting people that live full lives with rich family and social bonds

I would argue that this could also be said to people (mainly from more rural parts of the US) who like to disparage large cities. If we're going to lecture city dwellers about how they talk about places like Indiana, maybe it's worth encouraging Hoosiers to go east or west and experience the vibrant neighborhoods and offerings of large coastal cities rather than just assuming they're cesspools of crime and poverty just because they heard a politician say places like Portland, Oregon, are "war ravaged"

17. Broken_Hippo ◴[] No.45403389{3}[source]
Not the person you responded to, but: I lived in north-central Indiana until around age 35. Family still lives there. And the description: Pretty accurate.
18. 0ckpuppet ◴[] No.45404052{4}[source]
Sounds lke you grew up in the wrong small town, you could say the same about a bad neighborhood in any major city. I get around in the midwest for motorsports events, and there is a critical mass of people who love to meet travellers and love to travel themselves. Maybe it's condescension they distrust?
19. kyledrake ◴[] No.45406958{4}[source]
Having spent a decade in Portland and a few years in the Bay Area, all I can say here is that I've met these people in droves in both places, and the rural-urban political divide is just as strong in the coastal states as it is in the Midwest. I don't think content people living simpler lives are a thing that is unique to any state or region in the country.

If your experience is different, it may simply be the product of cost pressures. It's easier to have a simple life that consists of smoking weed and playing video games with your friends if you don't have to figure out how to afford an expensive house. And something tells me people in Indiana, even their dullards, could figure out how to ride a bus if they really needed to.