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355 points pavel_lishin | 6 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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ecshafer ◴[] No.45389198[source]
I think that the authors solution, outsourcing production is not quite right, they gloss over other issues.

>In a large country like the US, some variation in bus design is inevitable due to differences in conditions like weather and topography. But Silverberg said that many customizations are cosmetic, reflecting agency preferences or color schemes but not affecting vehicle performance.

This is kind of absurd, I have been on busses all over the country, a metro bus, is a metro bus. There are not really differences based on topography or climate.

>Two US transit agencies, RTD and SORTA, bought similar 40-foot, diesel-powered buses from the same manufacturer in 2023, but RTD's 10 buses cost $432,028 each, while SORTA's 17 cost $939,388 each.

The issue here appears to be: Why is SORTA's purchasing so incompetent that they are buying 17 busses for the price of 35? They are over double the price of RTD.

> That same year, Singapore’s Land Transport Authority also bought buses. Their order called for 240 fully electric vehicles — which are typically twice as expensive as diesel ones in the US. List price: Just $333,000 each.

Singapore has a very efficient, highly trained, highly educated, highly paid administrative staff, and their competency is what is being shown here. They thought to get a reduction in price because of the large number of busses they are ordering.

One solution the author doesn't point out is that Federal funds often come coupled with a large amount of bureaucratic red tape. It could be cheaper in the long run to have more tax collection and expenditure at the local level, and not rely as much on federal grants.

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1. freeopinion ◴[] No.45390484[source]
Your excerpts don't divulge whether one of the bus manufacturers is required by law to pay health insurance, social security, and other labor costs. Are they required by law to treat the water from their cooling towers before they dump it in the river? Do they have to pay a 50% tariff on imported parts?

I'm sure there is a lot of slop in different purchasing departments. They can probably all tighten things up. But there are legitimate reasons for one product to cost more than its twin. The U.S. should not allow twin products to be sold on the same shelf if one was not manufactured under the same rules as the domestic product. If all three of these products played under the same rules, then we can point fingers. Without that you are just ridiculing the company who knowingly takes a hit for purchasing from responsible vendors. If that is what you are doing, shame on you.

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2. ◴[] No.45391094[source]
3. maxerickson ◴[] No.45391298[source]
The 2 bus contracts were with the same manufacturer, which is headquartered in California.
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4. freeopinion ◴[] No.45391682[source]
Thank you. That's informative. What about the third contract?
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5. maxerickson ◴[] No.45392256{3}[source]
The difference between the North American buses is larger than the difference between the cheaper NA bus and the Singapore buses.

Is your theory that they treat half the plant poorly?

6. inferiorhuman ◴[] No.45392451[source]

  The 2 bus contracts were with the same manufacturer, which is
  headquartered in California.
The wikipedia entry for SORTA claims that in 2024 they took delivery of 19 buses: 7 diesel-electric hybrid and 12 diesel. They also list four more hybrid coaches on order. Presumably some or all of these are the 2023 order.

RTD's web site shows far more than 10 buses delivered in 2023 and nothing beyond that. They talk a bit about diesel hybrids but from what I can tell RTD does not operate any 40 ft hybrids.

Unsure what to say about the Bloomberg article but it smells like bullshit to me. Regardless, hybrid drivetrains will increase the unit cost significantly.