←back to thread

Is life a form of computation?

(thereader.mitpress.mit.edu)
222 points redeemed | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
AIPedant ◴[] No.45353525[source]
Articles like this indicate we should lock down the definition of "computation" that meaningfully distinguishes computing machines from other physical phenomena - a computation is a process that maps symbols (or strings of symbols) to other symbols, obeying certain simple rules[1]. A computer is a machine that does computations.

In that sense life is obviously not a computation: it makes some sense to view DNA as symbolic but it is misleading to do the same for the proteins they encode. These proteins are solving physical problems, not expressing symbolic solutions to symbolic problems - a wrench is not a symbolic solution to the problem of a symbolic lug nut. From this POV the analogy of DNA to computer program is just wrong: they are both analogous to blueprints, but not particularly analogous to each other. We should insist that DNA is no more "computational" than the rules that dictate how elements are formed from subatomic particles.

[1] Turing computability, lambda definability, primitive recursion, whatever.

replies(7): >>45353723 #>>45353938 #>>45354016 #>>45354218 #>>45354643 #>>45356677 #>>45358039 #
ants_everywhere ◴[] No.45354218[source]
I think you may be forgetting about analog computers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_computer
replies(1): >>45354506 #
lmm ◴[] No.45354506[source]
I don't think they are. The things analog computers work on are still symbolic - we don't care about the length of the rod or what have you, we care about the thing the length of the rod represents.
replies(1): >>45354698 #
ants_everywhere ◴[] No.45354698{3}[source]
analog computers don't generally compute by operating on symbols. For example see the classic video on fire control computers https://youtu.be/s1i-dnAH9Y4?t=496

OP's specific phrasing is that they "map symbols to symbols". Analog computers don't do that. Some can, but that's not their definition.

Turing machines et al. are a model of computation in mathematics. Humans do math by operating on symbols, so that's why that model operates on symbols. It's not an inherent part of the definition.

replies(2): >>45355111 #>>45355594 #
lmm ◴[] No.45355594{4}[source]
> analog computers don't generally compute by operating on symbols. For example see the classic video on fire control computers https://youtu.be/s1i-dnAH9Y4?t=496

> OP's specific phrasing is that they "map symbols to symbols". Analog computers don't do that. Some can, but that's not their definition.

How is that not symbolic? Fundamentally that kind of computer maps the positions of some rods or gears or what have you to the positions of some other rods or gears or what have you, and the first rods or gears are symbolising motion or elevation or what have you and the final one is symbolising barrel angle or what have you. (And sure, you might physically connect the final gear directly to the actual gun barrel, but that's not the part that's computation; the computation is the part happening with the little gears and rods in the middle, and they have symbolic meanings).

replies(1): >>45355638 #
defrost ◴[] No.45355638{5}[source]
There's a confusion of nomenclature.

Computers are functional mappings from inputs to outputs, sure.

Analog fire computers are continuous mappings from a continuum, a line segment (curved about a cam), to another continuum, a dial perhaps.

Symbolic operations, mapping from patterns of 0s and 1s (say) to other patterns are discrete, countable mappings.

With a real valued electrical current, discrete symbols are forced by threshold levels.

replies(2): >>45355845 #>>45369281 #
1. emmelaich ◴[] No.45355845{6}[source]
To what degree is the threshold precise? Maybe fundamentally there's not that much difference.