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140 points wdib | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.204s | source
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keiferski ◴[] No.45321397[source]
Well, they used to be, but the modern industrial age needed institutions that could train workers - and universities fit the bill. I don’t think it’s possible to detach the credential aspect from universities without a parallel work-focused system existing, and even then, the prestige of universities will still mean that the wealthy and privileged will prefer universities, which means that that prestige will trickle down to everyone else.

The only real solution IMO is to support institutions like St. John’s [1] and others that are explicitly not career-focused, and work on making similar institutions affordable and accessible. There’s no real reason why someone can’t start a student-operated (to keep costs down) university that focuses on the liberal arts, classics, mathematics, etc. that is affordable enough for the average person. I suspect the main problem is the lack of prestige and precariousness of the economy at large.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John%27s_College_(Annapoli...

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kazen44 ◴[] No.45321557[source]
I think this is also a specific difference between germanic education and english/us education.

Does the US not have something like a fachhochschule? A institute where peoeple are trained for specific fields/jobs? This systems seems to exist in most european countries that i know of, and it is specifically focussed on education related to a specific field or career. (this is also is there for different levels of practicality) for instance, you have also have schools for things like construction workers, hairdressers, etc etc.

University's are more seem as a very high level of education, but which does not train one for a specific job.

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keiferski ◴[] No.45321598[source]
There are schools like this, called various things like “technical schools” or “vocational schools.” But they tend to be looked down upon by the American middle class and higher; e.g., the average parent wants their kid to go to college, any college, over a vocational school. In other words, vocational schools are (unfortunately) associated with people that don’t do well in traditional school.

From what I understand Germany is much less classist in this regard.

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1. analog31 ◴[] No.45323458[source]
I recently talked with a German exchange student who is attending our local high school for a year. She said that German students take an exam that sorts them into different levels of high schools. If this is the case, then it would be very hard to prevent the same sorting from taking on a social class dimension.

But I also think we mythologize the trades. I can't remember a HN thread about higher education that didn't extol the virtues of trade school while dismissing college education as a scam. But are the trades really that wonderful? The tradespeople I've met, if they're my age, their bodies have been destroyed, or they've gotten out of the trades.

Many of the trades are cyclic, tied to the construction cycle. Many involve mostly small family-owned businesses that on the one hand greatly favor family members, and on the other, are exempt from certain labor laws such as OSHA reporting. Most are "not on the radar" of EEOC etc. The good things about the trades are if you're lucky enough to get into one of the bigger employers, that tend to be more highly regulated.

My knee jerk reaction is that we could get more people into the trades if we addressed real issues that affect the working class: Health care, retirement, workplace safety, and so forth.