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1245 points mriguy | 6 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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roughly ◴[] No.45306289[source]
I think there’s plenty of interesting debates to be had about immigration policy and its effects on the labor market, but one thing worth noting here is that the primary problem that damn near every other country on earth has isn’t immigration, it’s brain drain.

A core strategic strength of the US over the last century has been that everyone with any talent wants to come here to work, and by and large we’ve let them do so. You can argue how well that’s worked out for us - having worked with a great many extremely talented H1bs in an industry largely built by immigrants, I’d consider it pretty positive - but it damn sure hasn’t worked out well for the countries those talented folks came from.

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jpadkins ◴[] No.45306392[source]
The top end of H1B has been great for America. In the last few decades, there has been growth of abuse of the program to get mid level talent at below market rates which really hurts the middle class in America. People need to understand that most reformists don't want to get rid of the truly exceptional immigration to the US. We need to limit the volume, especially the immigrants that are directly competing with a hollowed out middle class in the US. Let me know if you want further reading on this topic.
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roughly ◴[] No.45306892[source]
The hollowing out of the middle class in the US isn't because of immigrants, it's because of a sustained campaign by capital to reduce the power of labor over the last 50-odd years and to concentrate wealth as best they can. Immigrant labor contributes to that because we've got inadequate labor protections and because we bought into the idea that lower consumer prices was a fine reason to ignore both labor and antitrust.
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remarkEon ◴[] No.45310560[source]
Thank you for illustrating a point that's hard to make, which is ... on this website everyone understands the math for supply and demand. Except when it comes to immigration. When it's about immigration, it's the evil capitalists. Again, thanks. We should all know by now that when the supply of labor increases, there is Zero affect on wages.
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rileymat2 ◴[] No.45310835[source]
It is more complicated to model because the increased supply also increases demand for labor.

Immigrants need houses built, food on the table and many work very hard to pay for that.

That work, that sweat equity makes us all more wealth, a higher GDP.

Natives of the country that are well established in the country are in a better position to capture that wealth than the immigrants.

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remarkEon ◴[] No.45310996[source]
No one cares about GDP anymore. It's a fake number.
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1. N2yhWNXQN3k9 ◴[] No.45311000[source]
Oh? Convince me? Outside of speculation around the fact that BLS heads were replaced?
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2. ◴[] No.45311013[source]
3. remarkEon ◴[] No.45311048[source]
If there's a different metric go ahead and suggest one. I know you're trying to bait a comment with the BLS reference. It used to be commonplace to observe that GDP is actually a very bad way to measure a country's performance, because it skips over things like income inequality or upward mobility. USSR had great GDP numbers, actually, despite the propaganda in the west at the time. Unfortunately everyone was miserable and, well, the rest is history.
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4. N2yhWNXQN3k9 ◴[] No.45311087[source]
> I know you're trying to bait a comment with the BLS reference

I am not. I am generally confused at what you would suggest is wrong with the GDP measurement.

We have multiple layers of agencies reporting on GDP and other economic measures the US. There are certainly some troublesome siloed measures (CPI), but I wasn't aware that GDP was one of them.

Your take doesn't seem relevant with regard to my knowledge on the subject.

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5. remarkEon ◴[] No.45311179{3}[source]
My point is that measuring things via GDP alone is bad and/or dumb. I think that was pretty clear in my comment. "Number go up" is not a sane way to measure progress.

I also do not care about your "knowledge" on the subject.

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6. hshdhdhj4444 ◴[] No.45312749{4}[source]
> GDP alone

So what are the metrics that you’re using other than GDP to justify your position