←back to thread

359 points FromTheArchives | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.406s | source
Show context
Imnimo ◴[] No.45293673[source]
I looked at the example for computer science basics for a 7th grader interested in food. Explanations include:

"a list can be used for a recipe"

"a set can be used to list all the unique ingredients you need to buy for a week's meals"

"a map can be used for a cookbook"

"a priority queue can be used to manage orders in a busy restaurant kitchen"

"a food-pairing graph can show which ingredients taste good together"

Maybe I'm over-estimating the taste of 7th graders, but I feel like I would get sick of this really quickly.

replies(12): >>45293709 #>>45293849 #>>45294241 #>>45294326 #>>45295433 #>>45295632 #>>45295729 #>>45295945 #>>45296066 #>>45297739 #>>45300529 #>>45301902 #
joshvm ◴[] No.45294241[source]
I'm sure computer science has improved in high school over the last (gulp) 20 years, but when I did variations of IT and programming lessons before university, it was bad. This was peak "you must Microsoft Office"-era. I've been involved in outreach for almost as long at this point. A lot of kids ask sensible questions like 'when do I ever need to use trig in real life?', because the examples in lessons and exams are so divorced from reality that it feels pointless.

I do think there is pedagogical value in showing where these concepts can be used practically and the advantage of LLMs is that you can transform the examples to what you're actually interested in. For example the Red Blob Games series on A* pathfinding are really good at showing how Dijkstra and graph traversal algorithms work, for a use-case (video games) that is appealing to a lot of nerdy people.

replies(5): >>45295848 #>>45295955 #>>45296330 #>>45299215 #>>45301424 #
locococo ◴[] No.45295955[source]
All the text books I've ever seen had practical examples in them. Like determining the height of a tree or a house simply based on trigonometry.

Your suggestion is interesting but I am not convinced that a student would be helped by aligning the examples with their interests. I could see a student asking how trig relates to computer games and the example the LLM generates becoming much more involved.

I see no problem with the examples being boring. The people that developed these techniques had such fundamental problems to solve and the wonder to me is the human mind that came up with these methods.

All this to say, maybe we lack appreciation for the fundamental sciences that underpin every aspect of our modern lives.

replies(2): >>45296441 #>>45298379 #
II2II ◴[] No.45296441[source]
> All the text books I've ever seen had practical examples in them. Like determining the height of a tree or a house simply based on trigonometry.

The trouble is a lot of those practical examples fall into the, "why would I care category". I had a high school physics teacher who described his university antics, one of which included a funny story of a bunch of his friends climbing on top of each other to measure the height of a flag pole. I guess the profs got tired of dealing with students scaling flag poles because I was measuring the height of mountains on the moon at the same university a couple of years later. The thing is nobody really cares about the height of a flag pole, while only a few would care about the height of the mountains on the moon.

The reality is the interesting applications are much more involved. They either require a depth of thought of process or a depth of knowledge that isn't appropriate for a textbook question. Take that trigonometry in games example. The math to do it was in my middle school curriculum, but it becomes obvious that computer graphics is more than trigonometry the moment you try to frame it as an example. I had linear algebra in high school. That will take you pretty far with the mathematics, but it will also be clear that a knowledge of computer programming is involved. Even knowing how to program isn't going to take you all of the way because few are interested in rendering verticies and edges ...

And that is just the obvious progression of knowledge in a simple application. Physics itself involves buckets full of trigonometry in extremely non-obvious ways, non-geometric ways.

replies(1): >>45297643 #
amluto ◴[] No.45297643[source]
I agree with your point in general, but I do find myself actually using trigonometry for fairly basic real-world purposes more often than one might expect. For example: how big of a piece of material fits in a particular position if it’s not parallel or perpendicular to the stuff around it? If a rope supports a load in the middle, how much tension does the rope need? How much of an angle should be cut into a door to comfortably clear the jamb? (If you’ve never contemplated this before: a door with a rectangular cross-section will have less clearance to the jamb when almost closed than when fully closed.)
replies(2): >>45297846 #>>45298348 #
1. Terr_ ◴[] No.45297846[source]
> If a rope supports a load

Rambling off-topic, but I remember being very impressed at how a uniform hanging rope makes a catenary [0] shape which is related to making strong structural arches.

So maybe if the students were somewhere where the class could design and make an igloo... :p

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catenary

replies(1): >>45298009 #
2. amluto ◴[] No.45298009[source]
Fun exercise for the reader: if you have that uniform hanging rope support a uniform flat suspension bridge (via a bunch of closely spaced vertical ropes), and the bridge is much, much heavier than the ropes, then you get a parabola instead of a catenary. Wikipedia gives a derivation involving differential equations, but it glosses over the actual fundamental difference between these situations. But you can explain what’s going on with just trigonometry and no calculus, let alone differential equations: consider how much weight a small section of chain that isn’t right in the middle is supporting. You’ll end up with a drawing involving a right triangle and some numbers associated with the sides, and those numbers will line up differently with the opposite, adjacent and hypotenuses in the two cases.

So your off-topic rambling isn’t off-topic at all :)