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In Defense of C++

(dayvster.com)
185 points todsacerdoti | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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loeg ◴[] No.45268662[source]
> in C++, you can write perfectly fine code without ever needing to worry about the more complex features of the language. You can write simple, readable, and maintainable code in C++ without ever needing to use templates, operator overloading, or any of the other more advanced features of the language.

This... doesn't really hold water. You have to learn about what the insane move semantics are (and the syntax for move ctors/operators) to do fairly basic things with the language. Overloaded operators like operator*() and operator<<() are widely used in the standard library so you're forced to understand what craziness they're doing under the hood. Basic standard library datatypes like std::vector use templates, so you're debugging template instantiation issues whether you write your own templated code or not.

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butterisgood ◴[] No.45268759[source]
Overloaded operators were a terrible mistake in every programming language I've encountered them in. (Yes, sorry Haskell, you too!)

I don't think move semantics are really that bad personally, and some languages move by default (isn't that Rust's whole thing?).

What I don't like is the implicit ambiguous nature of "What does this line of code mean out of context" in C++. Good luck!

I have hope for C++front/Cpp2. https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront

(oh and I think you can write a whole book on the different ways to initialize variables in C++).

The result is you might be able to use C++ to write something new, and stick to a style that's readable... to you! But it might not make everyone else who "knows C++" instantly able to work on your code.

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wvenable ◴[] No.45269102[source]
Overloaded operators are great. But overloaded operators that do something entirely different than their intended purpose is bad. So a + operator that does an add in your custom numeric data type is good. But using << for output is bad.
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zbentley ◴[] No.45274942[source]
Regrettably, “intended purpose” is highly subjective.

Sure, << for stream output is pretty unintuitive and silly. But what about pipes for function chaining/composition (many languages overload thus), or overriding call to do e.g. HTML element wrapping, or overriding * for matrices multiplied by simple ints/vectors?

Reasonable minds can and do differ about where the line is in many of those cases. And because of that variability of interpretation, we get extremely hard to understand code. As much as I have seen value in overloading at times, I’m forced to agree that it should probably not exist entirely.

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AnimalMuppet ◴[] No.45275996[source]
Depends on what you're trying to understand.

Let's say I have matrices, and I've overloaded * for multiplying a matrix by a matrix, and a matrix by a vector, and a matrix by a number. And now I write

  a = b * c;
If I'm trying to understand this as one of a series of steps of linear algebra that I'm trying to make sure are right, that is far more comprehensible than

  a = mat_mult(b,c);
because it uses math notation, and that's closer to the way linear algebra is written.

But if I take the exact same line and try to understand exactly which functions get called, because I'm worried about numerical stability or performance or something, then the first approach hides the details and the second one is easier to understand.

This is always the way it goes with abstraction. Abstraction hides the details, so we can think at a higher level. And that's good, when you're trying to think at the higher level. When you're not, then abstraction just hides what you're really trying to understand.

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1. fluorinerocket ◴[] No.45279988{3}[source]
but is it element by element multiplication, or matrix multiplication? I honestly just prefer calling matmul.