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zero_k ◴[15 Sep 25 15:08 UTC] No.45250588[source]▶

I am happy they demonstrated how useful these devices are. Marking these as "disposable" is a kind of insanity. I recovered a few of them "disposed" (i.e. "randomly thrown away into") in an empty flower pot, and took out the LiPo batteries from them -- which are rechargeable, and have charge circuitry (non-trivial for LiPos). That we somehow decided that it's OK to design these to be used only once feels wrong.

This is the opposite of repairability. We specifically made them impossible to reuse and refill. Makes my tinkerer (and eco-friendly) heart very sad.

replies(3): >>45250730 #>>45251103 #>>45256648 #

cluckindan ◴[15 Sep 25 15:20 UTC] No.45250730[source]▶

>>45250588 #

There are reusable vapes and reputable stores carry only those, but they are generally many times more expensive than disposable vapes, which are favored by smugglers (profit margins) and underage users (price point and potential seizing by parent/teacher/police).

Disposable vapes put young people in contact with career criminals and organized crime, who will be only too happy to oblige even if the customer has no money. The result is young people in debt to criminals, which has the exact same ramifications as getting in drug debt. Those young people can then be coerced to commit other crimes to cover their debts.

replies(3): >>45252165 #>>45252561 #>>45252915 #

HaZeust ◴[15 Sep 25 18:00 UTC] No.45252915[source]▶

>>45250730 #

>"Disposable vapes put young people in contact with career criminals and organized crime, who will be only too happy to oblige even if the customer has no money. The result is young people in debt to criminals, which has the exact same ramifications as getting in drug debt. Those young people can then be coerced to commit other crimes to cover their debts."

This feels like pure fearmongering, and it's not even believable when most people here grew up around cigarettes, dip, or vapes in secondary school throughout the decades, and the dynamic was never anything like what you’re describing. Nobody was getting shaken down for cigarette or vape debts by “organized crime.” It was usually just some older kid or significant other, ex-student, or friend with a hookup who’d buy a pack or device and resell at a small markup. Sometimes it was even just a straight favor.

Trying to paint disposable vapes as a gateway to mafia debt collection just doesn’t square with lived experience in the US. Plenty of us experimented with nicotine products when we were underage - or know someone who did, and while that had its own health and legal issues, coercion into crime to cover “nicotine debts” simply wasn’t part of it lol

More people get into organized crime from their local Wal-Mart denying their job application as their only realistic ways to make money from labor, than ever do from nicotine products

replies(1): >>45254239 #

cluckindan ◴[15 Sep 25 19:58 UTC] No.45254239[source]▶

>>45252915 #

Not everyone lives in the US.

replies(1): >>45256841 #

1. HaZeust ◴[16 Sep 25 01:07 UTC] No.45256841[source]▶

>>45254239 #

what country contradicts my statements? Where in this world is getting spotted a Geek Bar equate to a severe debt that requires crime to pay off? Absurd premise.

replies(1): >>45259033 #

2. cluckindan ◴[16 Sep 25 07:12 UTC] No.45259033[source]▶

>>45256841 (TP) #

Obviously it isn’t about a single vape. A bulk dealer wants to get rid of stock as quickly as possible, so they don’t expect a payment up front. Say it’s a box of 200 vapes. Then, someone steals it from the teenage vape dealer. Now, the teenager is out $4k in income but expected to pay $1k to $2k to the bulk dealer. That kind of debt to organized crime balloons fast; there are no controls on the interest. After a month of non-payment the amount owed may exceed $10k. At that point, the teenager can easily be coerced to commit additional crimes, including but not limited to hard drugs and murder.

I’d like to stress that this is not hyperbole, such things are documented to happen.

replies(3): >>45263885 #>>45266846 #>>45276685 #

3. chucksmash ◴[16 Sep 25 15:49 UTC] No.45263885[source]▶

>>45259033 #

What does somebody buying hundreds of vapes to resell and then having them stolen have to do with individual customers, which was the original premise?

replies(1): >>45272556 #

4. HaZeust ◴[16 Sep 25 19:33 UTC] No.45266846[source]▶

>>45259033 #

The conversation was about a single vape, and casual use, in the first place.

And yeah, I bet that's happened before, just like I bet a day-trader who ran on margin has lost all of his savings, house, cars, and wages through garnishment. That doesn't mean it's how 99% of situations, even in trading on margin, goes.

Even as it relates to underage dealers - even the stupid ones, a very few amount of teens buy in bulk - let alone do it only to fail on sales and get coerced into crime for payback. Not to downplay, the old "ATL" story like that is definitely real shit for illicit drug selling. But for vapes/alcohol/sanctioned (but legal and readily-available) substances? C'mon now. The market's there, but the incentives for coercion (due to the commodities being readily-available) are not.

I'd sooner assume that a story like that is a teen that's making a BS "blame the system" excuse for the fact that they actually bought vapes in bulk, squared it away, wanted to make more money than that hustle could offer, and voluntarily graduated to higher crime on their own. Fair play if they pull the excuse off, though - they've got us talking about it.

replies(1): >>45272560 #

5. cluckindan ◴[17 Sep 25 06:42 UTC] No.45272556{3}[source]▶

>>45263885 #

Read it again?

replies(1): >>45276695 #

6. cluckindan ◴[17 Sep 25 06:43 UTC] No.45272560{3}[source]▶

>>45266846 #

It was about smuggling and dealing from my parent comment onwards.

replies(1): >>45278643 #

7. lyraphix ◴[17 Sep 25 15:01 UTC] No.45276685[source]▶

>>45259033 #

Just made an account to call you on this ludicrous BS. Share the documentation if you're so sure it's out there!