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1121 points xyzal | 5 comments | | HN request time: 0.922s | source
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ManBeardPc ◴[] No.45209514[source]
Glad we could delay it for now. It will come back again and again with that high of support though. Also the German Bundestag is already discussing a compromise: https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-1108356. They are only unhappy with certain points like breaking encryption. They still want to destroy privacy and cut back our rights in the name of "safety", just a little less.
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kebman ◴[] No.45210669[source]
Is this a good time to plug the creation of chat protocols running over distributed hash tables (DHT) (essentially a decentralized way of creating mini message servers) and with forward security and end-to-end encryption? I made a POF in Rust but I don't have time to dev this right now. (Unless angel investors to help me shift priorities lol...)
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_aavaa_ ◴[] No.45210893[source]
It’s not. This is a political problem, not a technical one.
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cherryteastain ◴[] No.45211152[source]
People keep repeating this defeatist drivel but it's just not true. It's still up in the air whether you can defeat a law using technical measures, but it is a thoroughly settled matter that you cannot legislate away mathematics.

We saw how laws completely failed to make encryption illegal in the 90s as open source encryption code spread rapidly on the internet. "Exporting" encryption software was illegal in many countries like USA and France but it became impossible to enforce those laws. A technical measure defeated the law.

Encryption is just maths. It is the law being unreasonable here, and it will be the law which will ultimately have to concede defeat. UK is the perfect example here - Online Safety Act's anti-E2EE clauses have been basically declared by Ofcom to be impossible to implement and they are not even trying anymore.

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1. _aavaa_ ◴[] No.45211330[source]
> People keep repeating this defeatist drivel but it's just not true.

It is not defeatist drivel to argue for political action rather than trying to hit everything with a technological hammer.

> We saw how laws completely failed to make encryption illegal

In the USA free speech rights defeated that law.

> Encryption is just maths.

But nothing in those maths guarantee you the ability to use them legally.

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2. Gormo ◴[] No.45211689[source]
> It is not defeatist drivel to argue for political action rather than trying to hit everything with a technological hammer.

I'd say it's actually worse than defeatist drivel, since it actively discourages an entirely feasible strategy of making bad laws difficult/impossible to enforce, and instead encourages people to squander their efforts and resources on fighting all-or-nothing political battles in the context of utterly dysfunctional institutions riddled with perverse incentives that no one at all in the modern world seems to be able to overcome.

The "political, not technical" argument is equivalent to telling people concerned about possible flooding that instead of building levees, they should focus all their efforts on trying to drain the ocean.

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3. _aavaa_ ◴[] No.45212170[source]
> entirely feasible strategy

Who will host the code? What App Store will you publish in?

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4. RealityVoid ◴[] No.45212724{3}[source]
Right, you need an end-to-end ecosystem. Delivery, ease of use, trustable code and audit, good math, community, financial incentives. Still much more enduring solution than an eternal political battle, IMO.
5. Gormo ◴[] No.45215787{3}[source]
The developers and the FOSS community generally; F-Droid is a good app store for FOSS, but there's no inherent need for app stores in the first place.

Duplicating the tremendous success of the Linux ecosystem is a worthy goal, but even at the outset, the idea is to reach the 1% of users who want such a solution and are willing to invest thought and effort into it, and let it gradually become viable for incrementally wider adoption. Trying to target the 99% who don't care in the first place wouldn't make much sense.