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1120 points xyzal | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.013s | source
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ManBeardPc ◴[] No.45209514[source]
Glad we could delay it for now. It will come back again and again with that high of support though. Also the German Bundestag is already discussing a compromise: https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-1108356. They are only unhappy with certain points like breaking encryption. They still want to destroy privacy and cut back our rights in the name of "safety", just a little less.
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uyzstvqs ◴[] No.45209691[source]
The bigger issue is that we need to make the EU actually democratic. Start by removing every branch but the European Parliament. That's the only solution.
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rbehrends ◴[] No.45210150[source]
What you are proposing would amount replacing the current bicameral legislature (with the European Parliament as the lower house and the Council of the EU as the upper house) with a unicameral legislature. That would actually make it easier for bad laws to be passed, especially as the supermajority required in the Council is currently the biggest obstacle for this kind of legislation.

I'll also note that nothing here is per se undemocratic. Both the Parliament and the Council are made up of elected members. The members of the Council (as members of the national governments) are indirectly elected, but elected all the same. Direct election is not a requirement for a democracy (see election of the US president or the US Senate prior to the 17th amendment or the Senate of Canada right now).

That does not mean that there isn't plenty of valid criticism of the EU's current structure, but claiming that it is not "actually democratic" falls far short of a meaningful critique.

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HexPhantom ◴[] No.45210245[source]
The EU isn't undemocratic, but it feels undemocratic to many, and that's a legitimacy issue worth taking seriously
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port11 ◴[] No.45210405[source]
The EU feels undemocratic because it focuses on a lot of legislation that doesn't reflect what people want. It also works on some good stuff.

Over the past decade I went from a big fan to someone very troubled about the political goals of the elites.

And, having lived in Brussels, you can sorta see why they're disconnected from the “will of the people”…

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1. throw-the-towel ◴[] No.45210658[source]
What's the problem with living in Brussels? I'm not European, and very curious about that.
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2. inglor_cz ◴[] No.45210909[source]
They have their own neighbourhood and rarely mix with the rest of the population. Their Dunbar number (the max. amount of meaningful interpersonal connections that a person can maintain) is fully reached within that inner circle of European power.

Ironically, we managed to re-create a Forbidden City full of mandarins and eunuchs, or a new Versailles, only now they wear modern suits.

Scaling power institutions is always tricky, and this is the main risk.

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3. Freak_NL ◴[] No.45211451[source]
Good point. At this point I would not be averse to mandating baroque fashion for everyone involved with the EU in that quarter. Also, the yearly trek to Strasbourg shall be made by horse drawn coach (that'll put an end to that wasteful travesty at least).
4. port11 ◴[] No.45214624[source]
inglor_cz put it quite well.

Eventually it gets on your nerves how much worse the city has to be to cater to the Institutions.

There's something about non-taxed coddled elites eating oysters and drinking champagne at 9AM on a Sunday that makes you a bit of a cynic.

And then, of course, all your friends works for the research companies that get paid a fortune to provide advice to the Eurocrats. But well, your friend has a Bachelor's in Marketing and she's being considered an expert on Soil Research because… eh, the agency is getting paid.

The Bubble is there and you'll be exposed to it. It's not a good Bubble. It's mostly young MBAs and Political Science majors that think they know how to fix everything.

(And some very talented people, of course. It's not all bad.)