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560 points whatsupdog | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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netsharc ◴[] No.45167080[source]
So where's the donkey and where's the cart.

It reads like: citizens have been protesting the government using social media, government desperate to curb dissent bans social media, dissent is now on the streets..

Or maybe it's as straightforward as the media has been reporting.

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MangoToupe ◴[] No.45167146[source]
It also seems reasonable that companies have to follow local laws to operate there. Corporations superseding states seems just as dystopian as state repression of dissent. Granted, there is either confusion or misrepresentation as Mastodon is also banned.

The reporting seems pretty meagre; even strictly with these events, how are so many dying from batons and rubber bullets? Sure these can kill, but fourteen people?

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netsharc ◴[] No.45167498[source]
It's awkward isn't it, because following local laws could mean being a helping hand of the oppressor... For an extreme example, an email company that is forced by a new law to reveal all emails of citizens of country X, or a payment app that has to upload all transactions to the government (and where the supreme court has ruled in favour of the surveillance state). The "moral" company would probably rather shut their operations, but even trillion-dollar companies relent... And who has the last word on what's moral?
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monkeyelite ◴[] No.45168613[source]
> And who has the last word on what's moral?

The standard assumption in business is that you follow local laws and customs as they are a proxy for the moral system of the local people.

Are you operating a business or promoting western ideas?

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graemep ◴[] No.45168760[source]
Freedom is a western idea? Justice is a western idea?
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monkeyelite ◴[] No.45168809[source]
If you’re suggesting you have distilled humanity to the essential rights and values that are obviously true and transcend culture. Yes that’s a western value.
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jt2190 ◴[] No.45169563[source]
I guess you’d disagree with Article 19 of the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights then, on the basis that these human rights are a “western” concept and the United Nations is a “western” institution?

> Article 19

> Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma...

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1. monkeyelite ◴[] No.45170773{3}[source]
UN is a western liberal organization. I didn’t say I agree or disagree - I said businesses generally aim to abide by local law, not engage in western political projects.
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2. graemep ◴[] No.45179374[source]
You said because it is a proxy for local people's moral systems.

Firstly, laws are not a great proxy for local people's moral systems in dictatorships. I am not sure they are even that reliable proxy in democracies.

Secondly, while some exact expressions are of western origin, the general concept of freedom is pretty universal. Secondly, ideas of western origin might well be widely supported by people anywhere. Ideas spread.

Finally, where do you draw the line? Will you be entirely amoral and cooperate with any laws? Will you supply torture implements because the government wants them? A surveillance system primarily aimed at a ethnic or religious minority, or to identify supporters of the opposition? Genocide?

Most businesses claim to have some moral stance, and when they fail to stick to it it just looks like hypocrisy to me. A very visible example is the complete lack of rainbow logos in the same companies Chinese or Saudi operations during pride month - and media businesses that have a gay rights stance in the west will edit our gay scenes in Asia. Plenty of companies will claim to be anti-racist but do business than funds the Uighur genocide.

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3. monkeyelite ◴[] No.45193685[source]
> You said because it is a proxy for local people's moral systems.

Yes. Does your business have people who second guess local laws and customs according to their higher sense or morality?

> the general concept of freedom is pretty universal

No it’s not. To some freedom is doing whatever you want. To some freedom is free from bad choices and unhappiness. To others, freedom is for themselves and not others.

> Secondly, ideas of western origin might well be widely supported by people anywhere.

You’re still missing where this is a responsibility for operating a business.

> Will you be entirely amoral and cooperate with any laws

That’s what businesses generally do, yes. And they use the legal system to fight laws they disagree with.