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277 points simianwords | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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rhubarbtree ◴[] No.45152883[source]
I find this rather oddly phrased.

LLMs hallucinate because they are language models. They are stochastic models of language. They model language, not truth.

If the “truthy” responses are common in their training set for a given prompt, you might be more likely to get something useful as output. Feels like we fell into that idea and said - ok this is useful as an information retrieval tool. And now we use RL to reinforce that useful behaviour. But still, it’s a (biased) language model.

I don’t think that’s how humans work. There’s more to it. We need a model of language, but it’s not sufficient to explain our mental mechanisms. We have other ways of thinking than generating language fragments.

Trying to eliminate cases where a stochastic model the size of an LLM gives “undesirable” or “untrue” responses seems rather odd.

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crystal_revenge ◴[] No.45153785[source]
People also tend not to understand the absurdity of assuming that we can make LLMs stop hallucinating. It would imply not only that truth is absolutely objective, but that it exists on some smooth manifold which language can be mapped to.

That means there would be some high dimensional surface representing "all true things". Any fact could be trivially resolved as "true" or "false" simply by exploring whether or not it was represented on this surface. Where or not "My social security number is 123-45-6789" is true could be determined simply by checking whether or not that statement was mappable to the truth manifold. Likewise you could wander around that truth manifold and start generating output of all true things.

If such a thing existed it would make even the wildest fantasies about AGI seem tame.

edit: To simplify it further, this would imply you could have an 'is_true(statement: string): bool' function for any arbitrary statement in English.

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jdietrich ◴[] No.45154507[source]
>People also tend not to understand the absurdity of assuming that we can make LLMs stop hallucinating. It would imply not only that truth is absolutely objective, but that it exists on some smooth manifold which language can be mapped to.

Frankly, this is a silly line of argument. There is a vast spectrum between regularly inventing non-existent citations and total omniscience. "We can't define objective truth" isn't a gotcha, it's just irrelevant.

Nobody in the field is talking about or working on completely eliminating hallucinations in some grand philosophical sense, they're just grinding away at making the error rate go down, because that makes models more useful. As shown in this article, relatively simple changes can have a huge effect and meaningful progress is being made very rapidly.

We've been here before, with scepticism about Wikipedia. A generation of teachers taught their students "you can't trust Wikipedia, because anyone can edit it". Two decades and a raft of studies later, it became clear that Wikipedia is at least as factually accurate as traditional encyclopedias and textbooks. The contemporary debate about the reliability of Wikipedia is now fundamentally the same as arguments about the reliability of any carefully-edited resource, revolving around subtle and insidious biases rather than blatant falsehoods.

Large neural networks do not have to be omniscient to be demonstrably more reliable than all other sources of knowledge, they just need to keep improving at their current rate for a few more years. Theoretical nitpicking is missing the forest for the trees - what we can empirically observe about the progress in AI development should have us bracing ourselves for radical social and economic transformation.

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1. skydhash ◴[] No.45155475{3}[source]
The thing is, for a lot of tasks, a formal method (either algorithmic or simulation) can be very efficient to create and run with more reliable results. And for a lot of cases, creating a simpler and smaller model with other ML techniques can be as good or better than LLMs.

There's still no justification for the whole investment craze in LLMs.