How often do health insurers say no to patients? (2023)

FYI the shooter has received $1.2m in donations for his defense fund, and counting.

The accused shooter.

Firstly, Luigi Mangione is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Secondly, there's a fair amount of real evidence that Luigi is being set up as a scapegoat by the NYPD—a police department with a known history of planted evidence.

First part: yes, definitely. That’s a critical part of how the system works.

Second part: I’m not buying that for a moment. It’s way easier for me to believe that an individual working alone, screwed over by a megacorp who earns more based on how many people they can deny healthcare to, had enough and went vigilante. Vigilanteism and cold blooded murder are not OK, but it’s pretty easy to link cause and effect there. That’s vastly more likely than a shadow conspiracy that’s managed to keep its mouth shut so far.

Honest question, why isn't vigilantism okay?

What are people supposed to do? Vote? We voted for the public healthcare guy in 2008 and the powers-that-be decided they would rather back "muslim ban" demagogues than let that happen again.

I get this is your corporate-facing persona so you could never actually speak critically to this point, but the health insurance industry broke democracy, and eventually they'll find out what the alternative is.

Vigilantism isn't okay because your perception that all would-be vigilantes agree with your politics is terribly mistaken. Many of the people who voted with us for the public healthcare guy in 2008 are now on the side of the "muslim ban" demagogues.

I think you’re right about the FAFO bit. I suspect Mangione will end up being simply the first. I mean that as a prediction, not an endorsement. Anyone who’s studied the French Revolution knows how these things can turn out, for many the same reasons.

But I’ll almost always be against vigilanteism outside extreme hypotheticals (“would you shoot Hitler?”). Even if I were morally ok with a specific instance, some time the person behind the gun might disagree with someone I support, and then where’s my moral ground to oppose their actions?

Edit: Furthermore, as much as I despise UHC and their leadership, I love the notion of our justice system more than I loathe them. When someone decides to be the judge and executioner, society devolves to “might makes right”. I served in Somalia. I don’t want to live there.

> It’s way easier for me to believe that an individual working alone, screwed over by a megacorp who earns more based on how many people they can deny healthcare to, had enough and went vigilante.

This does not contradict what I said.

I make no claims about just who or what the actual shooter was. I merely claim that it almost certainly wasn't Luigi Mangione.

Well said, I see where you are coming from.

I agree with you 100%.