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275 points pabs3 | 5 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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z3t4 ◴[] No.45149119[source]
Why do we need to maximize profits? With current technology we shouldn't need to work 8 hours per day, maybe 2-3 hours max to maintain quality of living. Instead we should work to make everyone's life easier, including your own life of course.
replies(1): >>45149292 #
sparkie ◴[] No.45149292[source]
There's a need to make money faster than the government & central bank dilute it.

Need to fix the money before everything else can be fixed.

replies(1): >>45151654 #
greyface- ◴[] No.45151654[source]
Individuals in the U.S. holding this thesis (which I am sympathetic to) have had the ability to opt out of using government currency for savings since 2009 (bitcoin) or 1975 (gold). Yet, the problem persists.
replies(1): >>45153121 #
1. kbolino ◴[] No.45153121{3}[source]
Neither exempts you from taxes, which not only must be paid but specifically must be paid in fiat.
replies(1): >>45154656 #
2. greyface- ◴[] No.45154656[source]
Neither is taxed at rest; only when spent, on its appreciated (nominal) value. At worst, this is double (real) taxation, which, while still objectionable to some, is not continuously dilutive as GGP suggests.
replies(1): >>45158553 #
3. kbolino ◴[] No.45158553[source]
Then it's not money and so it's not really relevant. It has little to no bearing on the money supply or the value of money.

The issue is not double taxation per se, it is the inability to pay taxes at all. In order to pay the tax you incur by actually putting the gold/BTC/etc to use, you must liquidate some more of the thing to turn it into something the government will accept. That is what makes fiat real money, and everything else not.

replies(1): >>45161440 #
4. greyface- ◴[] No.45161440{3}[source]
You are welcome to police the category of 'money' as much as you want, but I don't see what this has to do with the argument being made upthread. Are you saying that the government accepting tax payments in gold or bitcoin would eliminate profit-maximizing behavior and free us from the tyranny of the 8-hour workday?
replies(1): >>45161590 #
5. kbolino ◴[] No.45161590{4}[source]
Yes, though I hadn't thought about it in those terms at first.

The modern, technocratic government controls policy through many means, but monetary policy is a major one. The switch to fully fiat currency was an important transition point, and I do not believe it is a coincidence that wage gains divorced from productivity gains not long after the end of Bretton Woods. Businesses have always chased profit, but how they do it, what other interests if any they have, and on whose behalf they do it, have changed over time in accordance with (para-)governmental policy, including everything from "intended policy goals" to "unintended consequences" and "regulatory capture".

Though, the simpler point I was driving at about gold and BTC is just that when they are relegated to mere savings, they lose most of their potency. Assets are like potential energy to money's kinetic energy. However, the government accepting anything other than its own currency for payment of taxes would destabilize that currency. Only countries in dire straits would even consider such a policy. Hence, real money is what matters.