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170 points PaulHoule | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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pama ◴[] No.45124182[source]
Sauro, if you read this, please refrain from such low-content speculative statements:

“On a loose but telling note, this is still three decades short of the number of neural connections in the human brain, 1015, and yet they consume some one hundred million times more power (GWatts as compared to the very modest 20 Watts required by our brains).”

No human brain could have time to read all the materials of a modern LLM training run even if they lived and read eight hours a day since humans first appeared over 300,000 years ago. More to the point, inference of an LLM is way more energy efficient than human inference (see the energy costs of a B200 decoding a 671B parameter model and estimate the energy needed to write the equivalent of a human book worth of information as part of a larger batch). The main reason for the large energy costs of inference is that we are serving hundreds of millions of people with the same model. No humans have this type of scaling capability.

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mikewarot ◴[] No.45127090[source]
> The main reason for the large energy costs of inference is that we are serving hundreds of millions of people with the same model. No humans have this type of scaling capability.

Using CPUs or GPUs or even tensor units involve waiting for data to be moved from RAM to/from compute. It's my understanding that most of the power used in LLM compute is taken at that stage, and I further believe that 95% savings are possible by merging memory and compute to build a universal computing fabric.

Alternatively, I'm deep in old man with goofy idea territory. Only time will tell.

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1. pama ◴[] No.45148750[source]
There is room for improvement in inference, hence the presence of various startups in this space and the increased innovation in software. Large nvidia clusters are still cost optimal for scaling inference (as they move most of the memory transfer of smaller setups out of the critical path), and their energy cost is trivial compared to the cost of the hardware, but these conditions may change.

Training is nearly fully compute bound and NVidia/CUDA provide decent abstractions for it. At least for now. We still need new ideas if training is to scale another 10 orders of magnitude in compute, but these ideas may not be practical for another decade.