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989 points acomjean | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.528s | source
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aeon_ai ◴[] No.45143392[source]
To be very clear on this point - this is not related to model training.

It’s important in the fair use assessment to understand that the training itself is fair use, but the pirating of the books is the issue at hand here, and is what Anthropic “whoopsied” into in acquiring the training data.

Buying used copies of books, scanning them, and training on it is fine.

Rainbows End was prescient in many ways.

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mdp2021 ◴[] No.45144037[source]
> Buying used copies of books

It remains deranged.

Everyone has more than a right to freely have read everything is stored in a library.

(Edit: in fact initially I wrote 'is supposed to' in place of 'has more than a right to' - meaning that "knowledge is there, we made it available: you are supposed to access it, with the fullest encouragement").

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vkou ◴[] No.45145658[source]
> Everyone has more than a right to freely have read everything is stored in a library.

Every human has the right to read those books.

And now, this is obvious, but it seems to be frequently missed - an LLM is not a human, and does not have such rights.

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nl ◴[] No.45145778[source]
By US law, cccording to Author's Guild vs Google[1] on the Google book scanning project, scanning books for indexes is fair use.

Additionally:

> Every human has the right to read those books.

Since when?

I strongly disagree - knowledge should be free.

I don't think the author's arrangement of the words should be free to reproduce (ie, I think some degree of copyright protection is ethical) but if I want to use a tool to help me understand the knowledge in a book then I should be able to.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors_Guild,_Inc._v._Google,....

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LunaSea ◴[] No.45147476[source]
> knowledge should be free

As soo as OpenAI open sources their model's source code I'll agree.

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mdp2021 ◴[] No.45147720[source]
That is an elision for "public knowledge". Of course there are nuances. In the case of books, there is little doubt: printed for sale is literally named "published".

(The "for sale" side does not limit the purpose to sales only, before somebody wants to attack that.)

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1. LunaSea ◴[] No.45148295[source]
Books are private objects sold to buyers. By definition, its not public knowledge.
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2. mdp2021 ◴[] No.45151368[source]
Again and again: the "book", the item, is a private object, access to the text is freely available - to those member of societies that have decided that knowledge be freely available and have thus established libraries. (They have collected the books - their own - so that we can freely access the texts.)