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286 points saikatsg | 64 comments | | HN request time: 0.227s | source | bottom
1. dahsameer ◴[] No.45137841[source]
I'm from Nepal. The bans are implemented in a pretty straightforward way: ISPs simply don't resolve DNS queries for these services. switch your DNS, and you're good to go. There are 26 apps that were banned: Facebook, Facebook Messenger, Instagram, YouTube, WhatsApp, Twitter, LinkedIn, Snapchat, Reddit, Discord, Pinterest, Signal, Threads, WeChat, Quora, Tumblr, Clubhouse, Mastodon, MeWe, Rumble, VK, Line, IMO, Zalo, Soul, and Hamro Patro.
replies(12): >>45137877 #>>45137985 #>>45138014 #>>45138356 #>>45139431 #>>45139637 #>>45141124 #>>45141726 #>>45142490 #>>45142840 #>>45145595 #>>45152973 #
2. mynameismon ◴[] No.45137877[source]
Interesting that Mastodon was blocked. How exactly was that ban supposed to be enforced, by blocking every single instance in existence?
replies(2): >>45137909 #>>45137918 #
3. dahsameer ◴[] No.45137909[source]
I'm pretty sure they didn't do their research well. They probably think mastodon's app is the top result that comes up when mastodon is typed into google. They also decided to block MeWe which is weird because nobody I know has ever heard of it. Another interesting choice was Rumble. Twitch was left alone but Rumble was blocked
replies(2): >>45137974 #>>45142212 #
4. dotnet00 ◴[] No.45137918[source]
Probably the usual, where they don't actually know or care about how it works, and just blocked whichever big instance they're referring to.
5. diggan ◴[] No.45137974{3}[source]
> decided to block MeWe which is weird because nobody I know has ever heard of it

Seems to indicate they're not actually trying to prevent their citizens from doing anything in particular, they're just trying to get these international companies to follow their local laws since they operate there.

replies(3): >>45138236 #>>45138280 #>>45144934 #
6. amelius ◴[] No.45137985[source]
> switch your DNS, and you're good to go

Except you might get a visit from the FCC equivalent.

replies(1): >>45138167 #
7. jjice ◴[] No.45138014[source]
> switch your DNS, and you're good to go

That would definitely allow you to access the sites again, but is it illegal to do that now, or is this kind of just a soft block without legal ramifications?

replies(2): >>45138040 #>>45142216 #
8. diggan ◴[] No.45138040[source]
> That would definitely allow you to access the sites again, but is it illegal to do that now, or is this kind of just a soft block without legal ramifications?

The move seems to not be about blocking citizens access or trying to prevent communication at all, but rather to punish those specific companies because they weren't following the law, since there are companies who weren't blocked.

9. dahsameer ◴[] No.45138167[source]
as long as my ISP doesn't snitch on me, I'm fine. ISPs also have a stake in this ban because the last time a block was implemented (on TikTok), people flocked to VPNs, which drove up bandwidth costs for them. so, I think while ISPs in Nepal are technically complying with the law by blocking these services, they're doing it in a way that’s intentionally easy to bypass. Now that TikTok is unbanned, the news of DNS switching is spreading quickly in Nepal through it
replies(4): >>45139137 #>>45139353 #>>45139649 #>>45141657 #
10. AlecSchueler ◴[] No.45138236{4}[source]
How dare they!
11. dahsameer ◴[] No.45138280{4}[source]
One could argue that. There were also a few services that complied a long time ago: TikTok, Viber et al. Twitter(X) is currently discussing with government about this. Also, a big population in Nepal seem to agree with this decision. I could see a lot of people celebrating the decision to block these services.
12. diggan ◴[] No.45139137{3}[source]
> I think while ISPs in Nepal are technically complying with the law by blocking these services, they're doing it in a way that’s intentionally easy to bypass

If you reframe the issue from "Nepal wants to punish the users" to "Nepal wants to punish the companies", implementing an easy DNS block makes a lot more sense. As long as most users are unable to access the platforms, the companies will get hurt by it, I think the idea is at least.

13. bn-l ◴[] No.45139353{3}[source]
Does no one have the political power to ban tiktok? Even the American president couldn’t. It’s just too politically fraught because people get angry without their tiktok.
14. zelphirkalt ◴[] No.45139399[source]
I would agree, but one exception: Signal. How did Signal brush them the wrong way? Do they have a law against e2ee that is at odds fundamentally with how Signal works?
replies(1): >>45139798 #
15. lighttower ◴[] No.45139431[source]
TikTok is still allowed? Isn't it the most damaging?
replies(3): >>45139680 #>>45142640 #>>45143550 #
16. ivape ◴[] No.45139637[source]
What’s the justification? Only a state religion could provide the societal justification. I don’t know, I’m recently living under Trump, so a failed authoritarian state is very new to me. Can anyone explain how normalized and day-to-day news like this is over there?

For example, we really don’t know what to do with news like this here, most of us just go on with our lives.

17. godshatter ◴[] No.45139649{3}[source]
Does using a VPN increase traffic for your ISP? I would think it's roughly the same amount of traffic, just encrypted from the ISPs perspective. Things take a longer route to get to your final destination and back, but it's not the traffic on the ISP that is increased. Unless encrypted data is much larger than unencrypted data.
replies(3): >>45142292 #>>45142451 #>>45142627 #
18. bee_rider ◴[] No.45139680[source]
I think it less like: governments see social media sites as damaging, so they ban them.

It is more like: a lot of people see social media sites as damaging, so they don’t particularly care when their governments ban them for whatever arbitrary reasons the governments come up with.

So, I’d expect the more that social media sites come back online to reflect their responsiveness to dealing with government demands, not the damaging-ness.

19. bee_rider ◴[] No.45139798{3}[source]
Signal seems like an unfortunate loser in this sort of situation. They are big enough to be noticed, but they don’t really have a “business model” that lends itself to complying with this sort of law. I mean, they are more like an altruistic non-profit than a conventional company, so betraying their mission to comply with this sort of law seems… unlikely, right?

I think their source code is up on, like, GitHub or something. Blocking GitHub seems a bit too far for most countries. Who knows, maybe folks in Nepal will figure out a workaround using the source code.

20. 31337Logic ◴[] No.45141124[source]
Signal? Fuck your government. That shit ain't right.
replies(1): >>45147312 #
21. SoftTalker ◴[] No.45141657{3}[source]
Some ISPs make it difficult. In the USA, Comcast blocks DNS other than to their own resolvers you're using their gateway/router device. I believe you can still do it using your own router but then they cap your data.
replies(1): >>45144363 #
22. lawlessone ◴[] No.45141726[source]
BlueSky still good i guess.
23. slim ◴[] No.45142212{3}[source]
> MeWe which is weird because nobody I know has ever heard of it. Another interesting choice was Rumble. Twitch was left alone but Rumble was blocked

From experience, this is a symptom of them wanting to censor a specific piece of content which is on all those platforms. Look for it, you may discover something interesting.

I live in Tunisia, which had one of the most censored internet in the world before 2011.

24. spike021 ◴[] No.45142216[source]
wouldn't using a VPN be just as illegal then?
25. DobarDabar ◴[] No.45142292{4}[source]
~10% overhead, is that significant for the ISP? Don't know.
26. ACCount37 ◴[] No.45142451{4}[source]
It does, but mostly in an indirect way.

See, companies that deal with a lot of traffic on static data have geographically distributed caches.

Let's say Steam has a major game release, and gets slammed with the DL traffic of 5 million gamers all around the world trying to get their hands at that new game all at once. However, Steam has an instruction manual that allows any ISP to set up their own cache servers. So an ISP that has a cache set up can convert a lot of that global traffic to local traffic, saving them money, and offering users a better experience.

(One small ISP I knew had it set up so that all traffic to their local Steam cache was fully exempt from client rate limiting, reportedly because the ISP's admins were avid gamers.)

Other services like major CDNs, YouTube or Netflix may have deals with ISPs to locate their caching hardware on ISP premises, or may buy their own caching servers in specific datacenters. Same idea applies - it's cheaper for both ISPs and web services when the users hit local caches than when they "cache miss" and generate global traffic.

VPN use is a "forced cache miss", so it's a loss-loss for both ISPs and web services.

replies(1): >>45146220 #
27. deadbabe ◴[] No.45142490[source]
What if you just access the IP directly?
replies(2): >>45143761 #>>45156912 #
28. kdmtctl ◴[] No.45142627{4}[source]
It's changes the data flow. Transit connections are magnitudes expensive than local exchanges, and you can even connect to neighborhood country exchanges on lower prices than serve all TikTok through Ams/Fra. Since VPN is encrypted you can't reroute its content by your rules.

Also mentioned here, larger corps have local caches which unloads transit significantly. Google does this for YouTube everywhere.

29. lawlessone ◴[] No.45142640[source]
>Isn't it the most damaging?

Depends on who you ask. I'd consider it damaging but nowhere near as damaging as X in recent times. And would consider FB worse that both for sheer the hysteria it generates in the old.

30. qwerty456127 ◴[] No.45142840[source]
Blocking Signal or Reddit sounds bizarre for a civilized democratic country. What sense can that make other than denying people the right for privacy of personal communications or uncensored information access? I am very surprised Nepal goes this way.
replies(3): >>45143033 #>>45143437 #>>45143693 #
31. stainablesteel ◴[] No.45143033[source]
maybe this is odd but i just have to ask, do you consider reddit usage to be the sign of a civilized democracy?
replies(3): >>45143099 #>>45143189 #>>45143594 #
32. skirge ◴[] No.45143099{3}[source]
reddit makes no harm, thus there is no reason to block it.
replies(1): >>45143673 #
33. qwerty456127 ◴[] No.45143189{3}[source]
I consider banning it uncharacteristic to such. I can hardly consider a state where people are not allowed to access Reddit (as well as HN, Wikipedia or StackExchange) freely and anonymously a healthy civilized democracy. It can still be a very civilized society in general but tightening control on the people like this indicates the government is going slippery slope.
replies(2): >>45143655 #>>45147757 #
34. alephnerd ◴[] No.45143437[source]
> democratic country

Nepal is classified as a Hybrid Regime [0] in democracy rankings.

Following the end of the civil war, power has largely consolidated amongst 3 players - KP Sharma Oli, Sher Bahadur Deuba, and Prachanda - who play a game of musical chairs.

Ofc, both China and India are constantly interfering in Nepali politics and building random coalitions with permutations of these three along with smaller parties.

Whenever India feels Nepal is leaning too pro-China, some crisis happens, and whenever China feels Nepal is leaning to pro-India, some crisis also happens.

Indian state politics also plays a role, because the states of Sikkim, Uttarakhand, Bihar, and Uttar Pradesh have significant ethnic ties in Nepal (eg. Bihar's CM Nitish Kumar's family are Maithili with family ties across the borders, and his opponent Lalu Prasad Yadav has backed Yadav political movements in Nepal as well; UP's CM Yogi Adityanath is a Garhwali Rajput who used to lead a Hindu sect that was patronized by the Nepali royal family and still has significant pull in Nepal; and Sikkim's former CM Pawan Kumar Chamling was part of a ethno-tribal movement amongst Janjatis/Tibeto-Burman tribals who were at the bottom rung of the Nepal during it's monarchical rule; KP Sharma Oli grew up in a village barely 20 miles from Naxalbari right when the Naxalite/Maoist insurgency began in West Bengal), which adds another layer of complexity, because state level politics often leaks across both Nepal and India.

[0] - https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2024/

replies(1): >>45143738 #
35. noselasd ◴[] No.45143550[source]
TikTok complied with their regulation last year. The regulations basically requires social media platforms with > 1 million nepalese accounts to get a license to operate in Nepal.

The bill and requirments doesn't seem unreasonable, atleast according to https://www.lawgandhi.com/social-media-bill-2081-2025/

36. AdrianB1 ◴[] No.45143594{3}[source]
Reddit, civilized and democracy are not strongly correlated. Free speech and civilized, they are.
37. skinnymuch ◴[] No.45143655{4}[source]
I’d think it doesn’t specifically mean anything for civilized or democracy or slippery slope to block a bunch of western sites.
replies(1): >>45143841 #
38. skinnymuch ◴[] No.45143673{4}[source]
Reddit is a western American site while western hegemony exists. There’s always a reason for the global south to block western sites/companies
replies(2): >>45143875 #>>45144324 #
39. skinnymuch ◴[] No.45143693[source]
While unequal exchange and western hegemony exists, it always makes sense to not want a global south society to be using western companies like Reddit
replies(2): >>45143830 #>>45149639 #
40. skinnymuch ◴[] No.45143738{3}[source]
I’m assuming that ranking has countries like China as not democratic while countries like the US as democratic. When most people in China are happy with their govt/they correctly believe the govt is working in their interest. Meanwhile the majority in America are usually not happy with their current regimes and most certainly the govt does not represent the people.
replies(3): >>45143750 #>>45145374 #>>45147681 #
41. alephnerd ◴[] No.45143750{4}[source]
> while countries like the US as democratic

America is ranked as a flawed democracy within the EIU - just like Israel, South Korea, and Italy - which I would say is a fairly accurate take about the state of American democracy.

> When most people in China

It's hard to tell whether Chinese think one way or the other, as these kinds of polls are tightly held. That said, protests are fairly common in China, and the rate of labor unrest within China has risen dramatically compared to the past 10 years [0]

[0] - https://labourreview.org/strike-wave-china/

42. nomel ◴[] No.45143761[source]
A sparsly populated host file will get around it.
43. alephnerd ◴[] No.45143830{3}[source]
Extremely popular Nepali platforms like Hamro Patro were banned as well, as was Zalo from the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.
44. qwerty456127 ◴[] No.45143841{5}[source]
The grammar is our enemy here. Blocking a website may be Okay. Blocking a person willing to access it is not.
45. qwerty456127 ◴[] No.45143875{5}[source]
Sure - the reason is the want more control over their people, they want to surveil them (hence blocking Signal), they want them to only read or express "correct" texts and prevent them from participating in open loosely-moderated discussions (hence blocking Reddit).
46. int_19h ◴[] No.45144324{5}[source]
Wouldn't want comrades to get cooties from reading icky things?
47. int_19h ◴[] No.45144363{4}[source]
I'm on Comcast Xfinity and I use my own router with custom DNS settings. I'm not aware of any difference wrt data caps.
replies(1): >>45144692 #
48. BetaDeltaAlpha ◴[] No.45144692{5}[source]
They cap your bandwidth, according to my friend in SF who uses an Xfinity router in bridge mode behind his own firewall.
replies(1): >>45146534 #
49. Aloisius ◴[] No.45144934{4}[source]
Does mastodon actually operate in Nepal?
replies(2): >>45145126 #>>45168160 #
50. danielheath ◴[] No.45145126{5}[source]
It's a big country; surely there's at least one instance running.
51. kevin_thibedeau ◴[] No.45145374{4}[source]
> When most people in China are happy with their govt

You don't seem to have seen the videos of people being shoved into vans when they try to exercise their right to lodge grievances about government corruption.

replies(2): >>45146562 #>>45148346 #
52. electriclove ◴[] No.45145595[source]
Why?
53. qmarchi ◴[] No.45146220{5}[source]
Not really an L for web services, since the caches would just end up near the VPN locations (and sometimes inside the same DC).

Disclaimer: Former YT Engineer.

54. tzs ◴[] No.45146534{6}[source]
Those are the old plans. In the last few months they have rolled nationwide a new set of 4 plans: 300 Mbps, 500 Mbps, 1 Gbps, and 2 Gbps. Upload speeds vary I think depending on whether your area has received the mid split upgrade they have been rolling out for a while. The mid split upgrade allocates more channels for uploads.

These plans all include unlimited data and an Xfinity gateway.

You aren't required to use their gateway, although they will still ship one to you unless you ask them not to. There is no discount for not using it. Unlimited is tied to the account, not the modem or gateway so you still get unlimited if you use your own modem. Same if you use their gateway but put it in bridge mode and supply your own router.

For new customers each of the new plans can be gotten at an introductory discount. The discount price is guaranteed for 1 year or 5 years (your choice, with 1 year generally giving a steeper discount). These are all month to month plans so you aren't locked into a contract.

Existing customers can switch to the new plans. There is no discount but they do get the 1 year or 5 year price guarantee.

55. fragmede ◴[] No.45146562{5}[source]
I agree, what ICE is doing in LA is pretty shameful!
replies(1): >>45150520 #
56. rancidcrab ◴[] No.45147312[source]
Doesn't signal automatically proxy your traffic if it detects that the domain is blocked? I assume signal will just continue to work in Nepal despite their DNS block.
57. titototititi ◴[] No.45147681{4}[source]
>most people in China are happy with their govt/they correctly believe the govt is working in their interest

we can't complain ;)

58. newyankee ◴[] No.45147757{4}[source]
Many national subreddits are taken over by power hungry mods who now have behind the scene help from nation-states. Despite ample evidence and other subreddits highlighting consistent systemic biases there is no way to remove mods or change policies. I understand it is difficult to make it completely unbiased as subjectivity and a lot of other factors will influence what counts are right or wrong in that scenario, and mods are not even paid either. But then this always made it ripe for influence from other areas as a part of information warfare and here we are with the outcome
59. xnyan ◴[] No.45148346{5}[source]
Whereas in the US, masked government goons have never thrown people in unmarked vans /s.
60. qwerty456127 ◴[] No.45149639{3}[source]
This is a duplicate comment.
61. RestlessMind ◴[] No.45150520{6}[source]
The difference is that people are protesting against ICE, writing op-eds openly across various forms of media and a prominent governor is trolling Federal govt's actions in public.

Good luck trying to do any of that in China. US and other democratic societies may have warts, but there is a huge gap between those systems and China.

62. nirava ◴[] No.45152973[source]
This is not true. "Switch your DNS" hasn't worked for while. It didn't work for the TikTok ban. The ISPs are not incompetent.

If the DNS change solution ever works, because they are half-assing it for whatever reason. And this time they apparently aren't.

And in any case, this is a really bad way to look at this situation. Your response to the government taking the next step in what looks like a very well planned power grab and move towards authoritarianism shouldn't be "well the ISPs suck here".

63. ranguna ◴[] No.45156912[source]
Then you'll lose https I believe
64. andypiper ◴[] No.45168160{5}[source]
Mastodon gGmbH does not have an operating presence in Nepal - but it is not the whole of Mastodon (or the Fediverse) by any means!

I had a quick look at the maps I could find that indicated the locations of Mastodon server instances, and I was not able to find anything local to their - of course that's not to say there is not one or more. It is important to the network that there should be many Mastodon instances, in many places, so it would be great if there were some!