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222 points dougb5 | 13 comments | | HN request time: 0.371s | source | bottom
1. marcus_holmes ◴[] No.45135955[source]
An ex-gf of mine spent four years going through university to become an Occupational Therapist. She's severely dyslexic, so the university provided her with all sorts of assistance to get through her degree, from scribes in the exams to extra time for tests. She passed, and became a qualified Occupational Therapist. She landed a job in a local hospital. And on day one, was handed a huge pile of paperwork to complete. No scribes, no assistance, just "this is the job, get on with it". She failed the job, left after 3 months, spent a couple of years rethinking her entire life, and switched to a completely different career with less paperwork.

My point is that education has to be aligned with the actual world outside.

Everyone uses AI now, for all sorts of tasks. And if they don't now, they will in the next few years. Trying to exclude AI from education is not only pointless, it's doing the kids a disservice: AI is going to be a large part of their future, so it needs to be a large part of their education.

If we follow the implied course of TFA we'd reduce AI use in schools and go back to old-skool teaching methods. Then that cohort of kids would get their first job and on day one they'd be handed an AI and told "this is the job, get on with it". Like with my ex-gf, everything they were taught would be useless because the basic foundation is different.

I know education is not entirely vocational, but if it moves too far from the world of work that everyone actually spends most of their time in, then it gets too theoretical and academic. AI is part of it, education needs to change.

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2. mkesper ◴[] No.45136003[source]
Honing your own skills of logic, critical thinking and perseverance are never useless.
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3. quaintdev ◴[] No.45136026[source]
This is so important. There are studies that indicate cognitive decline due to use of AI

https://publichealthpolicyjournal.com/mit-study-finds-artifi...

4. aprilthird2021 ◴[] No.45136029[source]
> Trying to exclude AI from education is not only pointless, it's doing the kids a disservice: AI is going to be a large part of their future, so it needs to be a large part of their education.

Hard hard hard hard disagree.

Everyone uses a calculator, even to calculate tips at a restaurant, but kids still need to learn arithmetic without a calculator's aid first.

I spent my CS education learning things that I never come across in my practical career, but I would have been done a disservice and be worse at my career if I just practiced what my career was going to be.

> I know education is not entirely vocational, but if it moves too far from the world of work that everyone actually spends most of their time in, then it gets too theoretical and academic.

Again, hard disagree. Most people's jobs go up a ladder where the entry level is not at all like academia, and as you become responsible for larger and larger autonomous units and divisions, etc. your work becomes more and more theoretical and academic, more about experimenting, formulating theses about the world, testing your hypothesis, being flexible as the results come in, etc.

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5. sandworm101 ◴[] No.45136101[source]
And lawyers also use paralegals, that doesnt mean we let law students hire them to write papers or assist during exams. Docs have nurses, but i believe docs still write exams solo. And soldiers have buddies, but you arent allowed to pay them to do your fitness test.

That a tool is common in the real world is not an excuse to let students outsource the work that is the heart of learning.

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6. Ekaros ◴[] No.45136136[source]
I think lot of education is making students to be aware things that exist. And at least have some starting point to search for when they need a thing.

And to achieve that exact goal they need to actually do something with it. Somehow practise some level of skill.

And I don't think using AI does this. Or even allow them to look for things that might exist. Recent example for me was big cookie cutters. Didn't even consider that such things were around. Saw a set on Temu and it clicked. I could get 15cm wide cutter instead of finding some bowl or something...

7. marcus_holmes ◴[] No.45136330[source]
> Everyone uses a calculator, even to calculate tips at a restaurant, but kids still need to learn arithmetic without a calculator's aid first.

citation needed

I was rapped across the knuckles by a sadistic primary school teacher for failing to learn my times table fast enough. Everyone said I absolutely needed to learn this because I would not always have access to a calculator. Here I am, literally carrying a calculator with me every second of my life.

I've spent more time and money getting therapy for the shit my teachers did to me trying to teach me the times table than I've saved using it.

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8. marcus_holmes ◴[] No.45136419[source]
I bet we'd have better lawyers if they did teach them how to manage paralegals to do the grunt work. I really wouldn't hold the legal profession up as "this is how to do it".

And doctors do not "have nurses" in the way that you've said; they're entirely different professions. I'll allow that it's just a poor example of the point you're trying to make.

> That a tool is common in the real world is not an excuse to let students outsource the work that is the heart of learning.

This is, I think, the point: the work is not the heart of the thing. A blacksmith using a power hammer is not less of a blacksmith; the heart of being a blacksmith is not being able to hit a piece of metal really hard. As we are finding out with coding; writing code is not the heart of software development. The grunt work that an AI can do is not the heart of the learning that needs to happen. Guiding an AI to write software is similar to a blacksmith using a power hammer.

I spent the day using an AI to write documents. They're good documents. We need them. I was able to get way more done by using the AI to write them. I don't think this is bad. And if it's not bad for me, why should it be bad for a student?

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9. noisy_boy ◴[] No.45136487{3}[source]
I don't need to get my phone out to do simple mental calculations - also hones your something-is-off radar for blatant mistakes.

One horrible teacher != Negating a useful skill wholesale

10. GeoAtreides ◴[] No.45137024{3}[source]
>And if it's not bad for me, why should it be bad for a student?

See, this is exactly the kind of logical fail you get when you don't exercise your critical thinking skill.

11. sandworm101 ◴[] No.45137106{3}[source]
Paralegals are also a totally different profession than lawyers. The relationship is very similar to that of doctors and nurses. They each deal with different aspects of the client "care" chain and work directly together at various meet points in that chain. And as seasoned nurses watch over new doctors, seasoned paralegals often watch over new lawyers.
12. al_caan ◴[] No.45137575[source]
as someone running HireParalegals.com (largest platform for hiring law talent), i can tell you we’re not seeing any slowdown in demand.

Firms are still hiring paralegals in big numbers, even with all the new AI tools around. the reality is ai can draft or summarize, but it doesn’t replace someone who understands procedure, catches nuance, and keeps a case on track. in practice, lawyers lean on paralegals more than ever.

13. azemetre ◴[] No.45145092[source]
Why is the answer to completely upend the education system rather than the original issue of your ex-gf working for a shitty company that couldn’t accommodate her?

The ADA became a thing in the US for a reason after all.