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What is it like to be a bat?

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180 points adityaathalye | 5 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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tooheavy ◴[] No.45123763[source]
Materialism (perhaps physicalism as well) appears to be on shaky ground to me - it does not tell me 'why' I have the first person experience that I have, why I experience and embody the matter that is my person or being, a specific entity. Another way to look at it is to say there doesn't appear to be a region in the brain that defines why I experience the brain, that or this specific brain. From this perspective, I find it self-refuting. They appear only to locate or correlate matter and experience - to help explain 'how'. If I could experience other persons or beings in the first person, and the matter in each person explained why it is that I experience that specific person or entity, I might believe otherwise. To me, this simple fact makes it obvious there is something 'more' that must explain how 'being' relates to consciousness, otherwise, we are simply explaining how the brain modulates experience - very valuable, but less interesting and within reach and validated in everyday life (biochemically and physically, degeneration, damage, etc.). So I would say the brain appears to modulate what is responsible for first person experience. This may not be the correct way to look at consciousness, but it's the most intuitively appealing to me. Because we can't separate being from consciousness, I find the idea that we might create it in the near-term unbelievable. We might certainly create something that can operate with the same or similar results, but I'm not currently convinced it would actually have a subjective first person experience equivalent to the reason we experience the matter we experience. There may be a logical or philosophical way around this view, but as I'm not trained, it's not immediately obvious.
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1. GoblinSlayer ◴[] No.45129815[source]
In this world "why" and "how" are synonyms. Asking why experience happens is equivalent to asking how experience happens.
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2. tooheavy ◴[] No.45130970[source]
You could probably look at them differently if you tried. I wouldn't make a strong argument as I wasn't leaning strongly on a precise distinction in the moment, but to at least connote more maturity and activity and knowledge building in how, while why appears more conceptual, distant, more philosophical, idea-driven, than scientific. It may be viewed as similar to asking why there is something rather than nothing. Why we experience some matter rather than other matter seems more appropriate 'considering first person experience as granted, but the presence of others as well that presumably could have been the case'. Why we experience a specific location and time in reality seems more appropriate than how: we have accepted it has occurred and reoccurred virtually countless times, but we are but one case. This is perhaps two reasons I can see for using a distinction, but that doesn't mean I would pursue it or stand by it in a serious inquiry or exposition.
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3. GoblinSlayer ◴[] No.45135653[source]
> It may be viewed as similar to asking why there is something rather than nothing.

The answer to that is a description how something happened to exist. A possible difference is that "how" asks for a full description, while "why" asks for an abbreviated description only of the relevant part, the rest assumed to be irrelevant. Experience of time a good example, because it happens differently depending on nature of time, so you can't assume nature of time to be irrelevant to the question.

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4. tooheavy ◴[] No.45140002{3}[source]
It's more appropriate to ask you 'why' you do what you do, than 'how'.
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5. GoblinSlayer ◴[] No.45156291{4}[source]
Describing a cause of my actions tell how I ended up doing it. It's synonymous.