←back to thread

170 points PaulHoule | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.203s | source
Show context
measurablefunc ◴[] No.45120049[source]
There is a formal extensional equivalence between Markov chains & LLMs but the only person who seems to be saying anything about this is Gary Marcus. He is constantly making the point that symbolic understanding can not be reduced to a probabilistic computation regardless of how large the graph gets it will still be missing basic stuff like backtracking (which is available in programming languages like Prolog). I think that Gary is right on basically all counts. Probabilistic generative models are fun but no amount of probabilistic sequence generation can be a substitute for logical reasoning.
replies(16): >>45120249 #>>45120259 #>>45120415 #>>45120573 #>>45120628 #>>45121159 #>>45121215 #>>45122702 #>>45122805 #>>45123808 #>>45123989 #>>45125478 #>>45125935 #>>45129038 #>>45130942 #>>45131644 #
logicchains ◴[] No.45120415[source]
LLMs are not formally equivalent to Markov chains, they're more powerful; transformers with sufficient chain of thought can solve any problem in P: https://arxiv.org/abs/2310.07923.
replies(1): >>45120484 #
measurablefunc ◴[] No.45120484[source]
If you think there is a mistake in this argument then I'd like to know where it is: https://markov.dk.workers.dev/.
replies(2): >>45122838 #>>45124408 #
CamperBob2 ◴[] No.45122838[source]
A Markov chain is memoryless by definition. A language model has a context, not to mention state in the form of the transformer's KV store.

The whole analogy is just pointless. You might as well call an elephant an Escalade because they weigh the same.

replies(1): >>45123454 #
measurablefunc ◴[] No.45123454[source]
Where is the logical mistake in the linked argument? If there is a mistake then I'd like to know what it is & the counter-example that invalidates the logical argument.
replies(3): >>45124048 #>>45124132 #>>45124761 #
1. ◴[] No.45124132[source]