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What is it like to be a bat?

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180 points adityaathalye | 2 comments | 03 Sep 25 17:48 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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bettating ◴[03 Sep 25 19:26 UTC] No.45119554[source]▶
What is it like to be another person?
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esafak ◴[03 Sep 25 19:45 UTC] No.45119704[source]▶
I'm not sure how to answer the even more fundamental question, "What is it like to be yourself?" What constitutes a valid answer? It's a vague question.
replies(2): >>45119865 #>>45120060 #
jibal ◴[03 Sep 25 20:06 UTC] No.45119865[source]▶
I don't believe that the phrase "what it's like" (in this philosophical sense) is coherent. When people like Nagel or Chalmers are asked to explain it, they liken it to other incoherent assertions.
replies(2): >>45120086 #>>45124015 #
vehemenz ◴[03 Sep 25 20:33 UTC] No.45120086[source]▶
What's incoherent about it? Do you not think subjective experience has its own qualities? Breathing in fresh morning air, for example?
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jibal ◴[03 Sep 25 21:12 UTC] No.45120454[source]▶
I stated what's incoherent about it. Your "Do you not think" is a non sequitur ... coherence is about meaning, and no one can say what the phrase means.

Aside from that, breathing fresh air in the morning is an activity, not a "quality of subjective experience". Generally the language people use around this is extremely confused and unhelpful.

replies(1): >>45120877 #
1. vehemenz ◴[03 Sep 25 22:04 UTC] No.45120877[source]▶
I'm sure you think you're well intended, but your attempts at rigor have me scratching my head a little bit. I don't understand the defensiveness given that you haven't done the bare minimum to explain your position.

And no, that's not what a non sequitur is. And no, coherence is not just a linguistic idea. Then you try to explain what I "really mean" by "quality of subjective experience," and you can't even give a good faith reading of that. I'm really trying here.

replies(1): >>45121021 #
2. jibal ◴[03 Sep 25 22:22 UTC] No.45121021[source]▶
What "defensiveness"? And you're accusing me of bad faith? Stick to talking about ideas, not people. I won't engage with you further.