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What is it like to be a bat?

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180 points adityaathalye | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.648s | source
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wagwang ◴[] No.45119516[source]
Can we just all admit there has basically been no real progress made to the mind-body problem. They all rest on metaphysical axioms of which no one has any proof of. Physicalism is about as plausible as solipsism.

Exhibit a

> Nagel begins by assuming that "conscious experience is a widespread phenomenon" present in many animals (particularly mammals), even though it is "difficult to say [...] what provides evidence of it".

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jibal ◴[] No.45119812[source]
> Physicalism is about as plausible as solipsism.

Physicalism is an ontological assertion that is almost certainly true, and is adhered to by nearly all scientists and most philosophers of mind. Solipsism is an ontological assertion that could only possibly be true for one person, and is generally dismissed. They are at opposite ends of the plausibility scale.

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1. vehemenz ◴[] No.45120031[source]
You're getting a little ahead of yourself. First, ontological assertions need to reflect reality. That is, they need to be true or false, and many philosophers, including prominent scientists, don't think they qualify. Indeed, the arguments against ontological realism are more airtight than any particular metaphysical theory.
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2. jibal ◴[] No.45120669[source]
> You're getting a little ahead of yourself.

Nonsense.

> First, ontological assertions need to reflect reality.

You're getting ahead of yourself to imply that somehow physicalism does not reflect reality, or that an assertion has to be proven to reflect reality before being made.

> That is, they need to be true or false

No, that's not what reflecting reality means. Of course ontological assertions are true or false, if they aren't incoherent, but that's neither here nor there.

> and many philosophers, including prominent scientists, don't think they qualify.

What's this "they" that don't qualify? The subject was physicalism, and again almost all scientists and most philosophers of mind subscribe to it ... which leaves room for some not doing so. Whether or not the outliers are "prominent" is irrelevant.

> Indeed, the arguments against ontological realism are more airtight than any particular metaphysical theory.

That's a much stronger claim than that physicalism is wrong ... many dualists are ontological realists. And it's certainly convenient to claim that there are airtight arguments for one's views, and easy to dismiss the claim.