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What is it like to be a bat?

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180 points adityaathalye | 15 comments | | HN request time: 0.407s | source | bottom
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adityaathalye ◴[] No.45119024[source]
“I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.”

— Kurt Vonnegut

In this sense, I think one has to aaaaaalmost be a bat in order to know what it is to be it. A fine thread trailing back to the human.

The imago-machines of Arkady Martine's "A Memory Called Empire" come to mind. Once integrated with another's imago, one is not quite the same self, not even the sum of two, but a new person entirely containing a whole line of selves selves melded into that which was one. Now one truly contains multitudes.

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1. jm__87 ◴[] No.45119544[source]
None of us have even experienced the full range of what humans can experience, so even we don't fully know what it is like to be any given person, we only know what it is like to be ourselves. It is kind of amazing when you think about it.
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2. adityaathalye ◴[] No.45119569[source]
https://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg.html

Andy Weir's The Egg makes regular HackerNews appearances.

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3. the_af ◴[] No.45120163[source]
> None of us have even experienced the full range of what humans can experience, so even we don't fully know what it is like to be any given person

I sometimes wonder about this, too. Do other people perceive things like I do? If someone was magically transplanted to my body, would they scream in pain "ooooh, this hurts, how could he stand it", whereas I consider the variety of discomforts of my body just that, discomforts? And similarly, were I magically transported to another person's body, would I be awestruck by how they see the world, how they perceive the color blue (to give an example), etc?

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4. jm__87 ◴[] No.45120448[source]
Another thing I think about a lot is that our own brains and sensory organs change (degrade) over time, so my own subjective experience is probably different in some important ways than it was like 20 years ago. My memory likely isn't good enough to fully capture the differences, so I don't even fully know what it was like to be me in the past.
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5. cl3misch ◴[] No.45120770[source]
That's almost exactly the beginning of Logic's story album "Everybody" which I have listened to so often that I can almost recite it. Despite years on HN I have never seen The Egg though. That blew my mind a bit, thanks!
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6. binary132 ◴[] No.45120860{3}[source]
In a sense, I think it’s accurate to say we only really know what it’s like to be us right now. Everything we perceive about ourselves through the lens of memory is an echo if not in fact imaginary.
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7. thunky ◴[] No.45121089[source]
> would I be awestruck by how they see the world, how they perceive the color blue (to give an example), etc

Yeah another example I think about from time to time is our own sense of perspective. It's all relative, but my sense of how far away is "that thing over there" is probably different from yours. Partially because we may be different sizes and heights, but also because our eyes and brains process the world differently. Like a camera with different lenses.

Also, speed. If your brain's clock is faster than mine then you may perceive the world to be moving slower than I do.

8. AIorNot ◴[] No.45121513{3}[source]
You guys are aware of Advaita and neo Advaita right? It basically has been the perrinal philosophy underlying all subjective spiritual experiences from Sufism to Gnostics to Buddhism and the Tao

Of course it could all be claptrap that humans want to believe in but I find it to be pretty powerful and I think it is true

(Warning: Gets into spiritual stuff)

https://youtu.be/R-IIzAblVlg?si=t9RqXgF_wwJPcv_g

9. ars ◴[] No.45123310[source]
Here's another example: When I look at something I "see" the functionality behind it (for example the pipes in the bathroom), or the chemical reaction, or sometimes even the concept of the atoms that make it up.

An interior designer will see the colors, and the layout and how the things go together or don't. I don't see that, and in turn the designer does not see what I see.

So never mind the physical senses, even on a mental level two people do not see/experience the world the same way.

10. phoenixhaber ◴[] No.45124057[source]
What I got out of this is that propeller heads believe in the flame that turns the fan blade on the pedestal (toy) while gear heads like music boxes (toy). So people that believe in eggs are into food, propeller heads like color and heat while gear heads like sound. What then but the universe is made by our dispositions? Why not would the world be made as an experiment in optics or the vibrations of a universal wave? Isn't this just cherry picking? What are the relations of someone who believes in music (an audience!) to someone that believes in invention (immortality!) to someone that believes in relationships (other people!). Perhaps the purpose of life is to leave a legacy or to become famous or to see what there is to see in the world.

There is no answer which is why we are here is the only thought I can come up with. Life is a question that asks itself to be answered and in the living answers itself so completely that to ask what is the purpose would be to say "what is the purpose of a hammer if there were nothing else?" The answer and the question become themselves and are inseparable from not themselves excepting insofar as no life cannot question and so cannot answer.

Anyway belly button picking. It amuses me that this paper is similar in many respects to the title of the 2017 paper attention is all you need. What if attention are all you needed to become a bat? Look everyone I'm a bat! POOF you become a bat. That would be silly.

11. GoblinSlayer ◴[] No.45124931{3}[source]
My mind drastically changed several times, and I somewhat remember how it worked previously.
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12. the_af ◴[] No.45126909{4}[source]
Do you, or do you think you remember? Your memories are always distortions, not accurate snapshots of reality.

Have you never thought you remembered something with clarity, only to be told it's impossible because it never happened? Or another example, I often vividly remember something from a book (it was a photograph on this side of the page, lower right corner) and then when I look it up, it was in a different location and it wasn't the photo I remembered. But my mental imagery felt so precise!

I'm with grandparent, I think I would perceive my younger self as simultaneously familiar and alien.

13. IAmBroom ◴[] No.45127315[source]
Autistic people have in part answered that question. Some of them feel actual pain at unwanted touches or undesirable textures.

Pain, like vision, resides in the brain; like vision it is mostly determined by reports from our (non-brain) nervous system, but pain, light flashes, even objects and people can be created whole-cloth by the brain itself. And "real" inputs can be ignored, like a mild pain you're desensitized to, or the gorilla walking amongst the ball-passers in that video.

14. backscratches ◴[] No.45147003{4}[source]
Safe to say most people are so uncurious about/distracted from their interior states/self reflection that very few if any people know what it is like to be them right now. Mostly we know a limited palette of reactions to stimuli, and every day the stimuli get narrower. LOUD FLUORESCENT SUGARY SEX.
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15. binary132 ◴[] No.45151441{5}[source]
You forgot SCARY, but yeah I got thinking about this too. It’s also true that there is a lot of internal state people aren’t able to be aware of.