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192 points pera | 15 comments | | HN request time: 0.692s | source | bottom
1. bawolff ◴[] No.45108510[source]
In some ways i think the most interesting aspect is that US federal government has to outsource its spyware.

Is it just that the NSA is unwilling (legally prevented?) to share their toys? Its hard to imagine they don't have capabilities like this.

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2. x0x0 ◴[] No.45108593[source]
I suspect the nsa doesn't want to burn their 0 days on this.
replies(1): >>45108773 #
3. vFunct ◴[] No.45108702[source]
NSA isn't allowed to spy on US citizens. NSA is a US military organization under Department of Defense, and Posse Comitatus act makes it unlawful for the US military to act as a police force in the US.

One of the few good things revealed by Edward Snowdens leaks was the fact that the NSA has filters for intercepted communications to filter out comms from US citizens. This was in top-secret programs that had no reason to be publicly known, and yet the NSA still had these filters installed anyways, because everyone in the NSA understands that they're not a law-enforcement agency, because of Posse Comitatus.

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4. ronsor ◴[] No.45108721[source]
> Posse Comitatus act makes it unlawful for the US military to act as a police force in the US

No, we're allowing that now for some reason.

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5. bawolff ◴[] No.45108745[source]
> Posse Comitatus act makes it unlawful for the US military to act as a police force in the US.

Sure, but i dont think (ianal) that it prevents technology transfer.

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6. mattnewton ◴[] No.45108763{3}[source]
Who says that isn’t happening?
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7. itqwertz ◴[] No.45108773[source]
I suspect Israel does whatever they want under the auspices of national security, gives “private” cybersecurity corporations latitude to circumvent international laws, then packages it all up to sell to the highest bidder.
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8. BoardsOfCanada ◴[] No.45108822[source]
So what would you say about the PRISM and Upstream programs where metadata about millions of Americans was collected? Doesn't it seem as if they could target any US citizen by just pretending to target any foreigner they communicate with?

https://www.aclu.org/news/national-security/five-things-to-k...

9. ◴[] No.45108949{3}[source]
10. amarant ◴[] No.45108975{4}[source]
It's implied by the fact that Ice had to obtain the spyware from israel
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11. dragonwriter ◴[] No.45109111[source]
> Posse Comitatus act makes it unlawful for the US military to act as a police force in the US.

Strictly speaking, that's not correct. The Posse Comitatus Act just changes the status of using the military as a police force from “allowed because any person or group can be deputized as a police at any time”, to “the US military can be used as a police force only under the laws specifically allowing and governing the US military as a police force.”

(Of course, the Posse Comitatus Act is a criminal law, which means in practice the primary mechanism for enforcing it is for the executive branch to arrest and prosecute offenders. This works tolerably well to prevent, say, a rogue sheriff calling up his buddy who happens to command an infantry company to come help out, but not particularly well to dissuade the President from directing the military for policing as a matter of Administration policy.)

In principal the courts can constrain the government based on it, as well, but it is noteworthy that the determination that the deployment was illegal in the case filed by the State of California almost immediately when courts were open after the initial LA deployment was announced on June 7 and before troops arrived on June 10 was just released, on September 2, nearly 3 months later. And is on hold for 10 days to give the government time to appeal. So, one might consider the courts to not be a meaningful constraint, here.

12. ThinkBeat ◴[] No.45109123[source]
They just feed it to GCHQ, no law against that.

If one of the Five Eyes are somehow forbidden to analyse something They just send it to one of the others where it is legal.

13. tptacek ◴[] No.45109494[source]
(1) Everybody outsources "spyware".

(2) NSA does not in fact have to outsource spyware (they may do it for convenience/situational logistics).

(3) US federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies all have multiple vendors for this stuff.

14. bawolff ◴[] No.45109963{3}[source]
It seems pretty unlikely that selling a zero-day to a state actor is a violation of international law, unless the vendor knows that state actor intends to use it to commit an internationally wrongful act.

Like at the very worst - selling "cyberweapons" would follow the same rules as selling actual weapons.

I don't super follow US politics, but i don't think we are at the point where ICE is comitting crimes against humanity - which i think is what would be required for this transaction to violate international law.

15. mattnewton ◴[] No.45110213{5}[source]
I mean that the US government could have laundered some of the tools it is not supposed to have developed against US citizens through Israeli companies. (We don’t have any evidence of this in this case)