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206 points weatherlight | 7 comments | | HN request time: 0.206s | source | bottom
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rkangel ◴[] No.45101850[source]
> MCU-class footprint (fits in 16 MB RAM)

That is absolutely not an MCU class footprint. Anything with an "M" when talking about memory isn't really an MCU. For evidence I cite the ST page on all their micros: https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32...

Only the very very high performance ones are >1MB of RAM.

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1. derefr ◴[] No.45106374[source]
Espressif calls the ESP32 an MCU, and at least 1/3 of ESP32 models have >1MiB of onboard PS ("pseudo-static") RAM (i.e. DRAM with its own refresh circuit.) At least 20 of the ESP32 models do have 16MiB.

(And I would argue that the ESP32 is an MCU even in this configuration — mostly because it satisfies ultra-low-power-on-idle requirements that most people expect for "pick up, use, put down, holds a charge until you pick it up again" devices.)

So, sure, if you mean the kind of $0.07 MCU IC you'd stuff in a keyboard or mouse, that's definitely not going to be running Nerves (or any other kind of dynamic runtime. You need to go full bare-metal on these.)

But if you mean the kind of $2–$8 MCU IC you'd stuff in a webcam, or a managed switch, or a battery-powered soldering iron, or a stick vacuum cleaner with auto suction-level detection, or a kitchen range/microwave/etc with soft-touch controls and an LCD — use-cases where there's more-than-enough profit margin to go around — then yeah, those'll run Nerves just fine.

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2. ACCount37 ◴[] No.45106704[source]
Even ESP32, the quintessential "punches above its weight" MCU, only packs 520KB of RAM by default. At the time of its release, that was a shitton of RAM for an MCU to have!

If you ship MCUs with 16MB of RAM routinely, you're either working with graphics or are actually insane.

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3. defen ◴[] No.45107496[source]
The MCU I'm currently working with has 12KB of RAM and it feels luxurious.
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4. dlcarrier ◴[] No.45107671[source]
Espressif's ESP32 line uses an MCU IC, either sold by itself (https://www.espressif.com/sites/default/files/documentation/...) or with flash memory and RAM ICs, all packaged together in a system-in-package footprint. (e.g. https://www.espressif.com/sites/default/files/documentation/...) There are various options for which flash and RAM ICs are packaged together, but the ESP32 die itself is very much an MCU and has only has 520 KB of SRAM.

A managed switch is very computy heavy, and does usually run a microprocessor with a full RTOS, if not Linux itself, which probably costs in the mult-dollar range. It's also not something most people have at home, outside of the switch built into their router. Everything elese you mentioned usually runs on microcontrollers with under 1 MiB of RAM. For example, Infineon's CYUSB306X series ASICs for webcams come in two RAM sizes: 256 KiB or 512 KiB, despite handling gigabits per second of data, and having an MCU at all isn't even necessary. (https://www.latticesemi.com/usb3#_CDED461DE15245C78A2973D4A4...) The Pinecil's Bouffalo BL706 MCU has 123 KiB of RAM, despite being a low-volume product where design time matters more than component cost. (https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Pinecil, https://en.bouffalolab.com/product/?type=detail&id=8) Microwave ovens are so high volume that they often don't even use packaged microcontrollers, mounting the die directly on the PCB, with an epoxy blob protecting it, and there's no way any would splurge on megabytes of SRAM. The most advanced microwave oven I've seen was from the 90's and definitely didn't splurge on an microprocessor. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0)

A slow MCU with external memory could run anything, like booting into linux on an AVR (https://www.avrfreaks.net/s/topic/a5C3l000000BrFREA0/t392375) but it's going to be extremely slow and not practical for any commercial product, which if produced in any volume will have as little RAM as possible.

5. the__alchemist ◴[] No.45108172[source]
ESP32's are on the high end of FLASH and RAM counts. You are pointing out that there is variance. The kind sof 2-8$ MCUs I've used generally have 512k-2Mb[it] onboard flash and <512k SRAM. (STM32G4, H7, ESP32C3 etc)

The Sub <$1 you refer do will have <100k of these. (STM32C0, G0 etc)

ST is actually moving away from the 2Mb MCUs, and instead offering ~1Mb with Octospi. I believe the intent is to use offboard flash if you want more. (e.g. the newer H7 variants)

6. ACCount37 ◴[] No.45108494{3}[source]
Ah, the cultural shock of going from 8 bit cores with 512 bytes to an actual modern chip.
7. imtringued ◴[] No.45113890[source]
MCU generally refers to self contained microcontrollers without any external memory. Once you add external memory, there are basically no limits anymore, but if you are going that route a LicheeRV Nano would get you a full Linux system with 256MiB for $16 so why bother targeting "MCU-class" chips?