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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

(hugotunius.se)
2071 points K0nserv | 3 comments | 31 Aug 25 21:46 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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zmmmmm ◴[01 Sep 25 02:51 UTC] No.45088995[source]▶
> In this context this would mean having the ability and documentation to build or install alternative operating systems on this hardware

It doesn't work. Everything from banks to Netflix and others are slowly edging out anything where they can't fully verify the chain of control to an entity they can have a legal or contractual relationship with. To be clear, this is fundamental, not incidental. You can't run your own operating system because it's not in Netflix's financial interest for you to do so. Or your banks, or your government. They all benefit from you not having control, so you can't.

This is why it's so important to defend the real principles here not just the technical artefacts of them. Netflix shouldn't be able to insist on a particular type of DRM for me to receive their service. Governments shouldn't be able to prevent me from end to end encrypting things. I should be able to opt into all this if I want more security, but it can't be mandatory. However all of these things are not technical, they are principles and rights that we have to argue for.

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JeremyNT ◴[01 Sep 25 03:50 UTC] No.45089284[source]▶
This is the crux of the matter.

Maybe conceptually you will be able to run some kind of open operating system with your own code, but it will be unable to access software or services provided by corporate or governmental entities.

This has been obvious for some time, and as soon as passkeys started popping up the endgame became clear.

Pleading to the government definitely can't save us now though, because they want the control just as much as the corporations do.

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reddalo ◴[01 Sep 25 06:19 UTC] No.45089975[source]▶
> as soon as passkeys started popping up the endgame became clear

That's why I'm 100% against passkeys. I'll never use them and I'll make sure nobody I know does.

They're just a lock-in mechanism.

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kleiba ◴[01 Sep 25 07:00 UTC] No.45090207[source]▶
For someone who hasn't spent any time thinking about that matter, could you please elaborate your point?
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dingaling ◴[01 Sep 25 07:19 UTC] No.45090312[source]▶
Imagine using ssh-keygen, but it locks the private key in a vendor-managed secure enclave. You can't copy it, export it, rename it or do anything wth it.
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1. tadfisher ◴[01 Sep 25 07:50 UTC] No.45090507[source]▶
I don't just imagine it, I do it, by using gpg-agent as my ssh-agent and using the private key generated by a Yubikey. Another way is to use tpm2-tools so only your laptop running your own signed boot chain can use the key. It is desirable to lock private key material in a physical thing that is hard to steal.

You can choose not to do this, and that's fine. Hardware attestation is dead because Apple refuses to implement it, so no one can force you to.

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2. oigursh ◴[01 Sep 25 12:45 UTC] No.45092306[source]▶
Can you explain your motivation around gpg-agent and yubikey little more, please? So the private key can't be copied elsewhere?
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3. tadfisher ◴[01 Sep 25 18:51 UTC] No.45095502[source]▶
Yes, that's the motivation.

These days I would explore the TPM option, but I'm worried that has less legal teeth than a physical key if I'm in a law enforcement situation.

There's also practicality; I really, really don't want to tell my boss that TSA or whoever had access to the company git repositories and databases for X minutes or hours, and that's sidestepped by checking a bag with the Yubikey (wastes their time) or mailing it to the destination (needs a warrant).