←back to thread

We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

(hugotunius.se)
2071 points K0nserv | 8 comments | 31 Aug 25 21:46 UTC | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
Show context
tzury ◴[01 Sep 25 01:47 UTC] No.45088695[source]▶
We need both options to coexist:

1. Open, hackable hardware for those who want full control and for driving innovation

2. Locked-down, managed devices for vulnerable users who benefit from protection

This concept of "I should run any code on hardware I own" is completely wrong as a universal principle. Yes, we absolutely should be able to run any code we want on open hardware we own - that option must exist. But we should not expect manufacturers of phones and tablets to allow anyone to run any code on every device, since this will cause harm to many users.

There should be more open and hackable products available in the market. The DIY mindset at the junction of hardware and software is crucial for tech innovation - we wouldn't be where we are today without it. However, I also want regulations and restrictions on the phones I buy for my kids and grandparents. They need protection from themselves and from bad actors.

The market should serve both groups: those who want to tinker and innovate, and those who need a safe, managed experience. The problem isn't that locked-down devices exist - it's that we don't have enough truly open alternatives for those who want them.

replies(23): >>45088735 #>>45088761 #>>45088840 #>>45088846 #>>45088867 #>>45088917 #>>45088924 #>>45088947 #>>45089091 #>>45089098 #>>45089274 #>>45089445 #>>45089853 #>>45090037 #>>45090783 #>>45091788 #>>45091834 #>>45092235 #>>45092332 #>>45092365 #>>45092417 #>>45092508 #>>45094664 #
mjevans ◴[01 Sep 25 02:17 UTC] No.45088840[source]▶
Incorrect.

Choice 2. Empowered user. The end user is free to CHOOSE to delegate the hardware's approved signing solutions to a third party. Possibly even a third party that is already included in the base firmware such as Microsoft, Apple, OEM, 'Open Source' (sub menu: List of several reputable distros and a choice which might have a big scary message and involved confirmation process to trust the inserted boot media or the URL the user typed in...)

There should also be a reset option, which might involve a jumper or physical key (E.G. clear CMOS) that factory resets any TPM / persistent storage. Yes it'd nuke everything in the enclave but it would release the hardware.

replies(6): >>45088909 #>>45088912 #>>45088914 #>>45088933 #>>45089048 #>>45091997 #
flomo ◴[01 Sep 25 02:33 UTC] No.45088909[source]▶
Keep in mind one of these third parties would almost certainly be Meta (because users want their stuff), and that would almost certainly be a privacy downgrade.
replies(1): >>45088937 #
echelon ◴[01 Sep 25 02:39 UTC] No.45088937[source]▶
Freedom > Privacy > Security

Never give up your freedom.

If you have to give up your privacy to ensure your freedom, so be it.

If you have to give up your security to ensure your privacy, so be it.

This goes for governments and phones.

replies(2): >>45088953 #>>45089093 #
1. judge2020 ◴[01 Sep 25 02:42 UTC] No.45088953[source]▶
> This goes for governments and phones.

Apple does not have the ability to throw me in prison or take away my freedoms. Only to not grant me extra freedoms subsidized by their R&D budget.

replies(2): >>45088959 #>>45089074 #
2. echelon ◴[01 Sep 25 02:43 UTC] No.45088959[source]▶
Apple has removed your freedom from day one.

Their R&D budget is at the expense of a free market that would have delivered the same or better products.

Did you ever see how wild and innovative the Japanese mobile phones were before iPhone monoculture took over?

I want crazy stuff like a smartphone that has the form factor of a Raspberry Pi. Or a smartphone with e-Ink. Crazy new categories of devices.

Sadly, the Apple/Google monopoly has turned smartphones into one of the shittiest, most locked down device categories. It's a death place for innovation.

replies(1): >>45089065 #
3. JSR_FDED ◴[01 Sep 25 03:05 UTC] No.45089065[source]▶
Nobody is forcing you to buy their products, so they haven’t taken away anything from you.

If you do decide to buy their products, nothing has changed since the day of your purchase, so they haven’t taken away anything from you.

Their “monoculture” didn’t “take hold” - it beat the Japanese offerings through innovation and a better product.

They operate in a free market, their R&D budget is made possible by their market success. If things change in the market (e.g. AI) the market will vote the way it always does.

replies(3): >>45089079 #>>45089354 #>>45091959 #
4. kg ◴[01 Sep 25 03:08 UTC] No.45089074[source]▶
Technically for US residents Apple can throw you in prison for attempting to maintain and use your freedoms, thanks to the anti-circumvention parts of the DMCA.
5. echelon ◴[01 Sep 25 03:08 UTC] No.45089079{3}[source]▶
The market has forced us all to buy Apple or Google. There is not a vibrant field of alternatives, and there is certainly a desert of hobbyist tech.

The market is now so depressed that everyone has to jump through these companies' hoops to participate in the most important computing form factor in the world.

Don't apologize for trillion dollar hyperscalers. They don't need your love, adoration, or apology. They do not care about you at all.

Too much power has accrued to these two and it's being leveraged against all of society and the open market. Competition is supposed to be difficult, ruthless, challenging, and frenetic. I see two companies resting on their laurels that are happy to tax us into the next century while we wear their little straightjackets.

6. Gud ◴[01 Sep 25 04:07 UTC] No.45089354{3}[source]▶
Do you honestly believe "a free market" would only produce two alternatives?

In that case, the free market sucks and I want government intervention.

replies(1): >>45089632 #
7. Ygg2 ◴[01 Sep 25 05:09 UTC] No.45089632{4}[source]▶
> Do you honestly believe "a free market" would only produce two alternatives

No. A free market will eventually produce a single monopolistic winner.

If you have ability to buy your competition, and most of people consider it a job and not some religious calling, monopoly is the most logical outcome.

Same way a black hole is the most logical outcome of gravity.

8. fsflover ◴[01 Sep 25 11:51 UTC] No.45091959{3}[source]▶
> They operate in a free market

They operate in the illegal duopoly, where you have the "free choice" between a tiny amount of freedom with unlimited telemetry and no freedom with convenience for a big buck.