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2071 points K0nserv | 22 comments | | HN request time: 1.6s | source | bottom
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idle_zealot ◴[] No.45088298[source]
This makes the point that the real battle we should be fighting is not for control of Android/iOS, but the ability to run other operating systems on phones. That would be great, but as the author acknowledges, building those alternatives is basically impossible. Even assuming that building a solid alternative is feasible, though, I don't think their point stands. Generally I'm not keen on legislatively forcing a developer to alter their software, but let's be real: Google and Apple have more power than most nations. I'm all for mandating that they change their code to be less user-hostile, for the same reason I prefer democracy to autocracy. Any party with power enough to impact millions of lives needs to be accountable to those it affects. I don't see the point of distinguishing between government and private corporation when that corporation is on the same scale of power and influence.
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1. jacquesm ◴[] No.45088767[source]
> Google and Apple have more power than most nations.

And that is what is wrong here. Even the smallest nation should be far more powerful than the largest corporation. But corporations are now more powerful than most nations, including some really big ones. So the only way to solve this is to for an umbrella for nations that offsets the power that these corporations have.

The first thing you notice when you arrive at Brussels airport is the absolute barrage of Google advertising that tries to convince you that Google is doing everything they can to play by the rules. When it is of course doing the exact opposite. So at least Google seems to realize that smaller nations banding together wield power. But they will never wield it as effectively as a company can, so we still have many problems.

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2. lukan ◴[] No.45088835[source]
"And that is what is wrong here. Even the smallest nation should be far more powerful than the largest corporation"

Since nations can be really small, I don't agree.

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3. pharrington ◴[] No.45088895[source]
This was my first thought too, but the largest corporations are way too large any healthy society.
4. BrenBarn ◴[] No.45089434[source]
Well, an umbrella for nations or a sledgehammer for companies. I'd say just start shredding large companies left and right.
5. cyphar ◴[] No.45089462[source]
Even the smallest nations have the legal right to permanently incarcerate, strip you of your assets or even murder you if you are in their sphere of influence. I would hope you'd agree those are not powers that we should grant to large corporations...

I think it's shocking how many people Google can affect through its search algorithms (more than any nation on Earth) and yet there is no democratic system to hold them accountable.

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6. vbezhenar ◴[] No.45089608[source]
These are basics of capitalism.

Company aims for profit.

Bigger scale allows for better efficiency.

So companies naturally grow big. The bigger they are, the easier for them to compete.

Big companies have access to tremendous resources, so they can push laws by bribing law makers, advertising their agenda to the masses.

There's no way around it, not without dismantling capitalism. Nations will serve to the corporations, no other way around.

There are natural boundaries of the growth scale, which are related to the inherent efficiency of communications between people and overall human capability. Corporations are controlled by people and people have limited brains and mouths. I feel that with AI development, those boundaries will move apart and allow for even greater growth eventually.

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7. yardstick ◴[] No.45089647{3}[source]
Kill, not murder. If the country ends your life they are doing it under their authority, not outside their authority.
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8. fluoridation ◴[] No.45089757{3}[source]
>Even the smallest nations have the legal right to permanently incarcerate, strip you of your assets or even murder you if you are in their sphere of influence.

A nation that did that would be able to do that exactly once before everyone decides to never do business with it ever again, which they can afford to do because it's such a small market. Exercising arbitrary power is not the trump card you think it is. Hell, even a tiny nation with reasonable but annoying (from the point of view of a corporation) laws may not be worth it to deal with.

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9. ghosty141 ◴[] No.45089861[source]
> There's no way around it

Yes there is, the population passing laws to regulate this. The problem is though, that most people don't understand and don't care enough until its too late.

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10. jacquesm ◴[] No.45090026{4}[source]
Singapore.
11. lukan ◴[] No.45091591{4}[source]
So for example the Nazis did not murder people? It was under their authority after all ...

Point being, also states can do murder.

12. lukan ◴[] No.45091599{4}[source]
Or more. If some small state decides to officially murder a US tourist while he never broke a local law, I do believe the public outcry would make the US government do more than just stop doing buisness.
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13. jacquesm ◴[] No.45091657{4}[source]
Context is everything. There are plenty of instances of countries murdering people. Authority does not define murder, ethics does.
14. tremon ◴[] No.45091739[source]
Bigger scale allows for better efficiency.

This is dogma, not proven fact, and most people that argue this tend to use self-serving metrics and a tailored definition of "efficient". Some counterexamples: early Google was much more efficient in responding to market changes than the current top-heavy organization; small hospitals tend to have better health outcomes (both per patient and per dollar) than large chains. Tesla was able to innovate much faster than established behemoths.

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15. tremon ◴[] No.45091778{5}[source]
Are you sure?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Jamal_Khashog...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Omar_Assad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Sayfollah_Musallet

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16. MangoToupe ◴[] No.45091847{3}[source]
I think you mean "nimble", "versatile", or "agile". None of these imply efficiency in the same sense economy of scale does (ie cost to produce a single deliverable unit).

There are good examples, though—you can produce a single gold ring a lot cheaper than you can produce a one-of-a-trillion of them, cuz at some point you simply run out of gold. Another example is running into a cap in demand. Classic sigmoid vs exponential patterns.

17. MangoToupe ◴[] No.45091866{3}[source]
Or forcibly taking over a factory.
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18. ◴[] No.45092949{5}[source]
19. lukan ◴[] No.45092951{6}[source]
Well, Saudi Arabia and Israel are not "some small state".
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20. jacquesm ◴[] No.45093450{7}[source]
Ah, the well known true small state fallacy. Should have seen that one coming I guess.
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21. inetknght ◴[] No.45094827{4}[source]
> > Even the smallest nations have the legal right to permanently incarcerate, strip you of your assets or even murder you if you are in their sphere of influence.

> A nation that did that would be able to do that exactly once before everyone decides to never do business with it ever again

US CBP and ICE would like a word with you.

22. lukan ◴[] No.45096240{8}[source]
Seriously?

True "some small state fallacy" please. And here I believe it matters if we are talking about some small state, or a small state that happens to be a close ally with lots of influence for various reasons.