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Is it possible to allow sideloading and keep users safe?

(shkspr.mobi)
205 points ColinWright | 6 comments | 30 Aug 25 12:03 UTC | HN request time: 1.249s | source | bottom
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cherryteastain ◴[31 Aug 25 13:35 UTC] No.45083061[source]▶
Answer is yes. But 'safety' is not the reason for the recent Google move.

It is a move taken in lockstep with EU's Chat Control and UK's Online Safety Act, and the proposed Kids Online Safety Act in the US. The common objective of all is total control of digital lives of citizens and allowing the government to snoop on all internet communication while not disabling end to end encryption. They need end to end encryption to lock out external adversaries (Russia China etc) but they need to see the contents of encrypted messages to monitor internal adversaries.

First step is blocking you from running any apps not allowed by Google/Apple.

Second step is putting in the systems to snoop on end to end encrypted communication apps on the endpoints, enabling intel agencies to detect thoughtcrime without exposing everyone's chats to Chinese/Russian intelligence. This will most likely be done by OSes recognizing the apps and extracting private keys on demand.

Last step is locking the bootloaders so you cannot have a phone which lacks the 'features' added in the second step.

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1. em-bee ◴[31 Aug 25 18:55 UTC] No.45085931[source]▶
Answer is yes.

how then? just a rough idea would be nice. because don't see it. as much as it pains me, but i have to admit that i find the article convincing. i see these people around me every day. they have no experience with technology. they didn't even go to school long enough. yet they all have a smartphone with no idea what it is capable of, or what the consequences are. and they are used to the government taking care to protect them.

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2. cherryteastain ◴[31 Aug 25 20:39 UTC] No.45086860[source]▶
In the same way Windows and Mac computers can sidel...,ehm sorry, install software: we don't. Stores also sell guns, knives, chainsaws, highly addictive opiates, and 4 ton death machines capable of travelling at 100 mph. We do not restrict ordinary kitchen knives which have been used in terrorist incidents killing dozens, but draw the line at grandma sending $10k to a Nigerian prince?

Even if we are restricting installing apps, there are less heavy handed measures. By enabling .apk installs only via developer options/command line/adb in a way that the average user will never be able to figure out, for example. Sprinkle a few warning pages with scary red lettering and it's fine. Grandma will never figure out how to run adb commands on Gentoo.

There is a tradeoff between liberty and security. You can never guarantee security; the Google rules in the article won't ensure it either, as Google has been shown to simply not care about scam/malware apps published onto its own app store anyway. The whole security angle is a misdirection. The whole move is about control.

> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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3. em-bee ◴[31 Aug 25 23:49 UTC] No.45088138[source]▶
Stores also sell guns, knives, chainsaws, highly addictive opiates, and 4 ton death machines capable of travelling at 100 mph

they don't sell them to people who don't know how to use them. with the exception of knives. but unlike technology, people do know how to use knives without getting hurt. they can easily see that chainsaws are dangerous. they need a drivers license for a car, and they can't get opiates without a prescription.

none of these controls are available for apps, and yet, because they don't know how to use phones/apps safely, because they can't tell the difference between an app that is save, and one that isn't, they risk their livelihood because they fell for a scam. they are not going to install those apps by themselves. they will ask the techshop around the corner to do it for them, and the scammers give the techguy a cut for installing that app that steals your money.

the problem is of course lack of education, but education doesn't have a quick fix. in the meantime many peoples lives will be ruined.

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4. adi_kurian ◴[31 Aug 25 23:52 UTC] No.45088163{3}[source]▶
I am pretty sure, in many parts of the United States, an 18 year old can purchase a gun at a store, even if it is the first gun they have ever touched.
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5. em-bee ◴[31 Aug 25 23:58 UTC] No.45088199{4}[source]▶
they still know that guns are dangerous. and they can tell the difference between a toy gun and a real one. they can't however tell the difference between an app that can be trusted, and an app that will steal their money.
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6. spwa4 ◴[01 Sep 25 10:45 UTC] No.45091534{5}[source]▶
> 4 ton death machines capable of travelling at 100 mph

By contrast, they think the 4 ton death machines are a really cool way to impress girls and that's what they're used for. Similar in Europe, by the way.

Not that there's any shortage of people who think guns are a cool way to impress girls.