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462 points JumpCrisscross | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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Refreeze5224 ◴[] No.45079571[source]
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mancerayder ◴[] No.45080078[source]
Fantastic. And tax levy for the city goes down, and cuts are made while middle class people pick up the rest of the burden.

Notice your statement is a broad morale, and I'm presenting a consequence out here in the real world.

The math of booting wealthy people from the city doesn't play out well for the city.

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LeafItAlone ◴[] No.45080309[source]
This argument has been made time and time again.

It seems reasonable at first glance, but I’ve seen no proof of it. California, usually mentioned as having high taxes, still has a large percentage of the ultra-wealthy in the USA. Same with NYC. Sure some notable persons have changed their addresses, but overall, they are they hurting?

Is there any documented case of a rich-popular municipality increasing taxes on the ultra wealthy and seeing the tax levy go down?

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roenxi ◴[] No.45080719[source]
That is one of those questions where if you're asking it, I do question how serous you are in seeking out answers. It is mathematically guaranteed that an optimal rate exists, the topic has been an ongoing research question for several centuries and it is hard to avoid if you spend time arguing economics. Wikipedia points out [0] that scholars dating back to Ibn Khaldun have been working on the topic of pinpointing an optimal tax rate for maximising income.

So while I admit to not providing you with a study in this comment [1], it is pretty obvious they have been done and I don't see what there is to challenge on the topic. Obviously there is an optimal tax rate for maximising revenue, this is an area where there has been a huge amount of research done and if a municipality pushes their rates beyond that point (which will happen with some regularity) it'll see its tax take go down. There isn't much to document, anywhere with taxing authority would be feeling out limits experimentally all the time.

> Sure some notable persons have changed their addresses, but overall, they are they hurting?

They moved states for tax reasons, so yes. Otherwise they wouldn't have moved. If notable people are starting to move then the system sounds like it is very close to the critical point.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve (not that it'd be total tax burden that needs is the limit, not just the slice imposed by one area).

[1] Wikipedia has a lot of sources though if you actually want to look it up.

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1. LeafItAlone ◴[] No.45082949[source]
So just to be clear: there is some undetermined optimal number, but so far no place has determined it and no place gone on the other side of it such that the ultra-wealthy left any particular area of note, causing a decrease in tax revenue. Got it. Thanks for the info!
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2. roenxi ◴[] No.45090973[source]
> ...but so far no place has determined it and no place gone on the other side of it...

This is what I mean when I say I'm not sure if you're actually interested in the answer. The Wikipedia article is a pretty thorough treatment. This isn't some new or unexplored area, it is about as well trodden ground as the economists have. There isn't any need to gather more evidence to retest it yet again, the numbers are well known.

The income-maximising tax rate is between 60 and 75% and depends a bit on local conditions (probably mostly migration and language barriers). Lots of places have gone beyond it, happens all the time, and they generally lower their tax rates when someone points out they could make more money that way. You'd probably find the California tax people do studies on this sort of thing fairly regularly; not that anyone particularly cares or that I'm going to try and look it up. The real question is whether the government should even be trying to maximise the tax take.