←back to thread

205 points ColinWright | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.784s | source
Show context
m463 ◴[] No.45080628[source]
"sideloading" connotates something that is negative.

On systems before apple's locked-down iphone, it was just called "installing".

The PC revolution started with people just inserting their software into the comptuer and running it. You didn't have to ask the computer manufacturer or the OS vendor permission to do it.

And note that apple doesn't allow you to protect yourself. You cannot install a firewall and block arbitrary software on your phone. For example, you can not block apple telemetry.

replies(8): >>45080727 #>>45080995 #>>45081451 #>>45082064 #>>45082687 #>>45083125 #>>45088266 #>>45100572 #
pjmlp ◴[] No.45080727[source]
Which is why alongside freedom came the business of anti-virus.
replies(3): >>45081201 #>>45081373 #>>45083051 #
sunaookami ◴[] No.45081373[source]
And people were successfully tricked into "needing" anti virus scanners that do more harm then good.
replies(1): >>45081763 #
mike_hearn ◴[] No.45081763[source]
Anti-virus apps aren't actually useless. They are slow, inefficient, have bad false positive and negative rates, but they aren't useless. I know it's an unpopular opinion but most HN posters have never been on the other side of this stuff.

Many moons ago I attended an internal tech talk by the Google security team. This was shortly after they got hacked by China around 2010 or so. The talk was a general one on what they were doing to boost the security posture in general.

Number one thing they were doing was moving away from AV scanners on Windows to a regime in which IT would centrally whitelist all apps by signature or EXE/DLL hashes. Beyond the issue of false negatives, the reason was that people would routinely install malware infected software despite being told by the AV scanner that it was infected. They'd be told that and they'd just override it. Nearly always the reason was that they were installing pirated software and wanted it badly enough that they either didn't care that it was virus infected, or they talked themselves into believing a conspiracy theory in which AV companies reported false positives to try and discourage piracy.

The other problem with AV was that it reported true positives centrally, but then they'd be coming from high level executives and there'd be problems with addressing the issue. Whereas in a whitelisting scheme said executive would have to file a ticket to request permission to install the malware-ridden pirated Photoshop or whatever, and they wouldn't do it.

This was very sad and I don't know if they kept it up, that sort of thing is terribly high maintenance and it wouldn't be a surprise if they moved away from it at some point. But when your biggest problem is AV that is accurate but ignored and that's inside one of the world's most sophisticated tech companies, it's fair to say AV is not useless but if anything needs to be even stricter.

replies(1): >>45082702 #
1. LoganDark ◴[] No.45082702[source]
> or they talked themselves into believing a conspiracy theory in which AV companies reported false positives to try and discourage piracy.

To be fair, pirated software often uses obfuscation techniques similar to malware, and then it's more like antivirus vendors refusing to add an exception for pirated software, rather than antivirus vendors specifically seeking out pirated software to mark as malware.

Also:

Certain types of scripts and software that I use to configure Windows in unsupported ways are detected as malware by major scanners. While I'm sure someone wouldn't appreciate these scripts being used on their computer by surprise, when I use them intentionally, I want their effects.

replies(1): >>45089076 #
2. MrDrMcCoy ◴[] No.45089076[source]
The one that most bothered me was when antivirus would flag a keygen. It even said all it found was a keygen, which is harmless on it's own.
replies(1): >>45089810 #
3. immibis ◴[] No.45089810[source]
Probably because it's targeted at businesses for whom having pirated software on their machines is a substantial legal liability. I remember it used to be labeled as "potentially unwanted program" rather than "virus" - is that no longer the case?