Most active commenters
  • ghaff(4)

←back to thread

123 points usernamed7 | 11 comments | | HN request time: 1.401s | source | bottom

I wanted to briefly share my experience as a senior engineer with 15 years of experience trying to find work in this market, because it was exhausting for me and i'm sure others will appreciate the perspective.

As the title says, I have applied to over 450 positions. Most companies did not even send me a rejection. Ghost jobs are a thing, so are fake roles to get you to signup/join some rando job board.

I interviewed for a director of engineering role, and all interviews went well, but they ghosted me at the end.

I did several take homes and all were accepted, but companies dragged their feet on next steps.

I did reject a few kinds of roles: ones that used AI for interviewing me, ones that had me do a coding challenge as the first step, and jobs that had "no working hours" and expected you to be "on" 24/7.

Many of the job applicant expected me to answer asinine questions like "what excited you about this role?" and would say things like "don't use AI! we want your true self" or would go so far as to try to get you to agree to their AI interview policy. As If.

I eventually did get hired as a software architect. the company that hired me was very professional, respectful, forward thinking (i used windsurf during the interview) and did not play games with me. They had a 4-step interview process, and asked a lot of good questions. One of the best interview processes of my career.

My advice to other engineers on the job market:

  1) Spray and pray. If its vaguely a fit, apply. It's a numbers game. Be shameless. 
  2) Always be willing to walk. Protect your time. Don't waste your time on lengthy job applications that take too long to complete. Some hiring managers will gladly waste your time. (one job application explicitly wanted you to spend 20 minutes filling out theirs)
  3) Don't do coding exercises before you interview with someone, be weary of asymmetrical time expenditures. see #2. 
  4) You can probably do a lot of different roles, "prompt engineer" is a real job title companies are hiring for, for example. 
  5) Work a couple of different job platforms. For example I used linkedin, dice, ziprecruiter, weworkremotely, and rubyonremote and a few others.
  6) Use AI to generate your resume, but feed it all the context of your work history (don't misrepresent your skills)
  7) Use AI to fill out asinine job application questions, but if they ask you thoughtful questions answer those yourself. I got the interview for director of engineering because i answered authentically to thoughtful questions.
  8) Pace yourself. Spend a few hours a day at it then come back in a day or two and go again. 
  9) Work on a side project or learn a new lang/framework in parallel. 
  10) Interviewing is like dating, everyone is looking for something different, and some don't really know what they want. Not a you problem.
  11) If they use workday for their job applications, bounce. It's the worst. 
  12) It takes time as roles become available. The job you end up getting might not open until 2 months from now. see #1.
Show context
dewey ◴[] No.45073819[source]
Reading your advice, I think that explains why it took 450 applications. Nobody liked spray and pray, AI generated resumes.

In my experience it’s much better to spend much more time on a target application to a company you’ve researched and maybe reached out to people or met current employees.

replies(10): >>45073888 #>>45073903 #>>45073994 #>>45074002 #>>45074126 #>>45074133 #>>45074187 #>>45075946 #>>45077521 #>>45086394 #
1. jacknews ◴[] No.45073903[source]
I think you're describing getting jobs via networking.

That's a different thing to applying to 'public' jobs ads, which often have an AI discard most applications, then they just throw 50% in file 13, filter another 50% with stupid questions, and so on, and that's even if the job is real.

The same as for the freelancer sites; there's a high chance your applications won't even be read, so it's really not worth spending quality time on them.

replies(3): >>45073962 #>>45074195 #>>45077142 #
2. ghaff ◴[] No.45073962[source]
Things may be different today. But after getting an on-campus interview job out of grad school, my few jobs were all through people I knew.
replies(1): >>45074077 #
3. fn-mote ◴[] No.45074077[source]
> Things may be different today.

The point of the comments here is that things ARE different today.

I would never have imagined that "AI resume" would be a good idea, but ...

Looking at the posts on HN from the hiring side, total cheats are making it past the screening regularly. There's a lot of problems in the hiring process right now, and they aren't just from the economic downturn.

People who need jobs (or want different jobs) have to play the game with the current rules, not wait around for the rules to change (again).

replies(1): >>45074134 #
4. ghaff ◴[] No.45074134{3}[source]
I'm unconvinced that reaching out to people you know and know your work--especially if they have hiring authority--isn't a pretty good strategy. In fact, with the arms race of flooding the application process and then the company tossing most of it in the trash essentially at random, I wonder if it isn't the better strategy.

Of course, if you don't have a network, that's probably not a great place to be in absent credentials that make you stand out.

replies(1): >>45074739 #
5. barnabee ◴[] No.45074195[source]
If you have 15 years experience as the OP does and you’re trying to get a job by replying to “public” postings on the internet, you’re probably making your life harder than it needs to be and missing out on the best opportunities.

If you can, getting a job through personal connections and networking has always yielded the best results for both parties in my experience. In 20 years, only my first graduate job didn’t come this way.

I also saw no mention of speaking to an actual recruiter/headhunter, which is the only way other than the aforementioned personal intros and networking that I/we have hired anyone with 15 years of experience that I can remember.

I’m not surprised it took 450 attempts.

replies(2): >>45075061 #>>45076078 #
6. usernamed7 ◴[] No.45074739{4}[source]
This is delulu. Yes, if you know people who are hiring, or companies where people you know who work, great. By all means do that. Referrals are a strong mechanism IF you can leverage it.

But nobody in my network of ~100 is in either situation. They are either also jobless, or their company is not hiring or, what they are hiring for is not applicable to me (such as wrong role/country/TZ/stack).

replies(1): >>45077111 #
7. jacknews ◴[] No.45075061[source]
You seem to be saying 15 years experience means you should have a network that will be good for jobs, so why bother applying to ads?

What if you recently changed specialization, or moved city or even country? What if it's been a few years since you were in actual employment, you were working on startups, or had a career break or whatever. What if you have way more than 15 years experience. And so many other situations, which might result in your network being limited or not that good for finding the kind of work you want.

The point is, if you apply to advertised jobs, it's a numbers game.

8. MattPalmer1086 ◴[] No.45076078[source]
I concur. All my roles have either come from my network or working with recruiters.

As a hiring manager now, I hate, hate, hate the spray and pray applicants. Wastes a vast amount of my time weeding them out. And I'm probably rejecting actually good candidates now, as I just immediately reject anyone who doesn't seem to have thought even a little about the position they're applying for.

9. ghaff ◴[] No.45077111{5}[source]
At some point, if you've exhausted your network and sending out a flood of generic application letters/resumes isn't getting you anywhere, you probably should consider shifting your focus in some way. That might mean going to events, writing, considering different types of roles, etc. Obviously some markets have more potential targets than others.
10. ikidd ◴[] No.45077142[source]
>then they just throw 50% in file 13

I can't hire those people, they're unlucky

replies(1): >>45078377 #
11. ghaff ◴[] No.45078377[source]
They lack the Teela Brown gene. Too bad.